Islam - How Awful Is It?

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Sean Hayden
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Re: Should Stupidity Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Sean Hayden » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:49 pm

Śiva wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:42 pm
No, I'm not trolling you Sean.

If they don't follow the book, then they're not Muslims and they're not subject of this discussion.

Thanks for conceding the point that Muslims (those who actually practice the religion, and follow the book) are bad though.
I disagree. There are many flavors of Islam.

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Re: Should Stupidity Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Rum » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:49 pm

Hate to butt in, but Christians don't all 'follow the book' and for that matter those who do interpret it in different ways, some seeing calls to violence, others calls to peace. There have after all been periods of very bloody war in the name of Christ.

People, not religions are the key variable to my way of thinking. Violence appears to be , sadly, an innate human quality, easily brought to the surface with a bit of justification and that most dangerous thing - the certainty of the virtue of one's position.

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Re: Should Stupidity Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Sean Hayden » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:50 pm

I also never said anyone is bad. :roll:

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Re: Should Stupidity Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Sean Hayden » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:56 pm

Cunt wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:49 pm
Sean Hayden wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:46 pm
Cunt wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:44 pm
Sean Hayden wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:41 pm

If instead you expect to see them teaching a more acceptable Islam you won't be disappointed.
If Islam starts including and protecting freedom of speech and freedom of reading/watching/listening, then I will not be disappointed.

If they continue to push Sharia, then I see them as unable to think about, speak about or write about the important matters.
First I doubt you're keeping up with what Islam is doing, so this is a bit of weird thing to say --not bad, just weird. (I do this sort of thing too, and it must be weird then as well.) Second, are you looking to take Islam seriously or to convert to Islam if it becomes more reasonable?

I thought we were discussing how dangerous Muslims are because of Islam.

Islam as a political ideology is interesting. I haven't got the time to study it in detail though. Nor do I have any desire to take it seriously as an alternative to what we've got. :dunno:
Political ideology or religious ideology? Do those parts need separating?
Sure, why not? We are free to separate the parts of Islam that we see as political e.g. rule of law from the parts that we see as spiritual e.g. destination of souls. A Muslim may not be free to do so, or they may be. But we certainly are.

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Re: Should Stupidity Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Jason » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:02 pm

Sean Hayden wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:49 pm
Śiva wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:42 pm
No, I'm not trolling you Sean.

If they don't follow the book, then they're not Muslims and they're not subject of this discussion.

Thanks for conceding the point that Muslims (those who actually practice the religion, and follow the book) are bad though.
I disagree. There are many flavors of Islam.

How is a flavour if Islam that does not follow the Quran Islam? :ask:

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Re: Should Stupidity Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Cunt » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:03 pm

Sean Hayden wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:56 pm
Sure, why not? We are free to separate the parts of Islam that we see as political e.g. rule of law from the parts that we see as spiritual e.g. destination of souls. A Muslim may not be free to do so, or they may be. But we certainly are.
In a place with sharia law, such as Canada, how do you criticise political Islam without running afoul of the anti-islamophobia laws ?
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Re: Should Stupidity Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Sean Hayden » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:07 pm

Śiva wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:02 pm
Sean Hayden wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:49 pm
Śiva wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:42 pm
No, I'm not trolling you Sean.

If they don't follow the book, then they're not Muslims and they're not subject of this discussion.

Thanks for conceding the point that Muslims (those who actually practice the religion, and follow the book) are bad though.
I disagree. There are many flavors of Islam.

How is a flavour if Islam that does not follow the Quran Islam? :ask:
:sigh: They follow the Koran. They don't follow it as others do, or apparently as you think they should. This isn't complicated to me. Perhaps you can expand a bit more on what exactly you think the problem is?
Last edited by Sean Hayden on Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Should Stupidity Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Sean Hayden » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:08 pm

Cunt wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:03 pm
Sean Hayden wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:56 pm
Sure, why not? We are free to separate the parts of Islam that we see as political e.g. rule of law from the parts that we see as spiritual e.g. destination of souls. A Muslim may not be free to do so, or they may be. But we certainly are.
In a place with sharia law, such as Canada, how do you criticise political Islam without running afoul of the anti-islamophobia laws ?
Canada has sharia law!? That's wild man. Sharia law is complicated. I used to think it just meant following some written book, but it's actually quite involved. Have you considered contacting a Sharia lawyer to ask how you might go about it?

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Re: Should Stupidity Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Jason » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:13 pm

Sean Hayden wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:07 pm
Śiva wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:02 pm
Sean Hayden wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:49 pm
Śiva wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:42 pm
No, I'm not trolling you Sean.

If they don't follow the book, then they're not Muslims and they're not subject of this discussion.

Thanks for conceding the point that Muslims (those who actually practice the religion, and follow the book) are bad though.
I disagree. There are many flavors of Islam.

How is a flavour if Islam that does not follow the Quran Islam? :ask:
:sigh: They follow the Koran. They don't follow it as others do, or apparently as you think they should. This isn't complicated to me. Perhaps you can expand a bit more on what exactly you think the problem is?
My problem is that if they do not follow the Quran they are not Muslims and not who we're talking about. How is that unclear?

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Re: Should Stupidity Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Jason » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:14 pm

Sean Hayden wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:08 pm
Cunt wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:03 pm
Sean Hayden wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:56 pm
Sure, why not? We are free to separate the parts of Islam that we see as political e.g. rule of law from the parts that we see as spiritual e.g. destination of souls. A Muslim may not be free to do so, or they may be. But we certainly are.
In a place with sharia law, such as Canada, how do you criticise political Islam without running afoul of the anti-islamophobia laws ?
Canada has sharia law!? That's wild man. Sharia law is complicated. I used to think it just meant following some written book, but it's actually quite involved. Have you considered contacting a Sharia lawyer to ask how you might go about it?
Quoted for weirdness.

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Sean Hayden
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Re: Should Stupidity Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Sean Hayden » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:18 pm

Śiva wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:13 pm
Sean Hayden wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:07 pm
Śiva wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:02 pm
Sean Hayden wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:49 pm
Śiva wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:42 pm
No, I'm not trolling you Sean.

If they don't follow the book, then they're not Muslims and they're not subject of this discussion.

Thanks for conceding the point that Muslims (those who actually practice the religion, and follow the book) are bad though.
I disagree. There are many flavors of Islam.

How is a flavour if Islam that does not follow the Quran Islam? :ask:
:sigh: They follow the Koran. They don't follow it as others do, or apparently as you think they should. This isn't complicated to me. Perhaps you can expand a bit more on what exactly you think the problem is?
My problem is that if they do not follow the Quran they are not Muslims and not who we're talking about. How is that unclear?
Because they do follow the Koran. Maybe you're having a problem understanding how it's possible to follow a religious text in more than one way. Rum has already pointed out that it's common in Christianity. Well, Islam also has many flavors and at least some of the diversity will come from how the Koran is interpreted. Although that's not all, as there is more to being a Muslim than just the Koran. --well, that has been my experience anyway :dunno:

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Re: Should Stupidity Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Sean Hayden » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:20 pm

Or maybe you think you've correctly interpreted the Koran, or have been convinced that only some Muslims have, and they are the true Muslims? I don't know. To me it's obvious that you can follow the Koran in multiple ways so it makes sense to say a person doesn't follow this or that Koran, but is still a Muslim.

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Re: Should Stupidity Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Jason » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:21 pm

I'm certainly having a problem understanding how it's possible to follow the exhortations to violence in the Quran in a different way. Perhaps you can explain?

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Re: Should Stupidity Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Sean Hayden » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:23 pm

So the Koran is just this passage for you then? Maybe you would be better off asking a Muslim how he does it? Provided you can bring yourself to accept they are in fact a Muslim if they aren't violent. :roll:

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Re: Should Stupidity Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Jason » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:23 pm

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that speak of war with nonbelievers, usually on the basis of their status as non-Muslims. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/page ... lence.aspx

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