Islam - How Awful Is It?

[Cunt]

I'm willing to say those things to Christian friends (or insult their god, deny their holy spook etc.) or to explain my dislike of the Torah, or circumcision with Jewish friends. I haven't heard anyone ask those questions of Muslims.

I think it's a combination of 'the bigotry of low expectations' and genuine realistic fear of violence.

Open to other suggestions as to why it is that way. I won't be able to say much of anything here in Canada though, since we have begun with Sharia law here.

[Sean Hayden]

Muslims are just people dude. That means you can expect the full range. This is an easy concept.

I get the point you're making, it just distorts things a bit is all.

[Jason]

People who believe in an intrinsically 'evil' ideology. The 'moderates' often shield the 'extremists' and enable them to perpetrate their 'evil' crimes.

[Cunt]

Muslims are just people dude. That means you can expect the full range. This is an easy concept.

I get the point you're making, it just distorts things a bit is all.

Where are the Muslims being critical of extremist muslims? I know some who hide behind security (Aayan Hirsi Ali) but where are the public criticisms?

In Canada, it would be illegal to say the rational, honest things Aayan Hirsi Ali has said, written and researched. Anyone in Britain is in even worse shape. (look at what happened when Tommy Robinson went into jail with his ideological opponents)

[Sean Hayden]

Been there too Siva, no longer think it's true. I see it as frustration at the difficulty of the problem and seeking a short cut.

Consider that we could change it to be moderates as an intermediate step and lose nothing in the way of truthiness.

[Sean Hayden]

Muslims are just people dude. That means you can expect the full range. This is an easy concept.

I get the point you're making, it just distorts things a bit is all.

Where are the Muslims being critical of extremist muslims? I know some who hide behind security (Aayan Hirsi Ali) but where are the public criticisms?

In Canada, it would be illegal to say the rational, honest things Aayan Hirsi Ali has said, written and researched. Anyone in Britain is in even worse shape. (look at what happened when Tommy Robinson went into jail with his ideological opponents)

Why are Catholic church still full on Sunday? What's wrong with these people?

I don't know. But they fall in a range, there are some disgusted and some not. The same is true of Islam, there are many flavors. Should you expect to see Muslims speaking against Islam in general? That's the shortcut problem I just mentioned and unrealistic.

If instead you expect to see them teaching a more acceptable Islam you won't be disappointed.

[Jason]

Been there too Siva, no longer think it's true. I see it as frustration at the difficulty of the problem and seeking a short cut.

Consider that we could change it to be moderates as an intermediate step and lose nothing of the truthiness of it.

So... what about all the exhortations to violence contained in their holy book?

[Sean Hayden]

Are we talking about books or people?

[Cunt]

If instead you expect to see them teaching a more acceptable Islam you won't be disappointed.

If Islam starts including and protecting freedom of speech and freedom of reading/watching/listening, then I will not be disappointed.

If they continue to push Sharia, then I see them as unable to think about, speak about or write about the important matters.

[Jason]

Are we talking about books or people?

People who supposedly believe (a) certain book(s) is the word of a certain 'prophet' and follow it (them) religiously.

[Rum]

A reminder - not that it matters - that the OP was actually a parody thread. The original Crumple thread title was 'Should Communism be declared a criminal ideology' (from memory).

[Sean Hayden]

Are we talking about books or people?

People who supposedly believe (a) certain book(s) is the word of a certain 'prophet' and follow it (them) religiously.

Why Siva, are you trolling me?

If you want to use the book in place of the people, which would seem to be the point of bringing up the book in response to statements about the moderate nature of the people, then you'll have to deal with the fact that not just a majority, but the vast majority of people don't follow the book.

However, if you just want to make the point that if they followed the book it would be bad, or that the situation may be dangerous because they always could follow the book, then go ahead. It hasn't got the bite though, has it?

[Jason]

No, I'm not trolling you Sean.

If they don't follow the book, then they're not Muslims and they're not subject of this discussion.

Thanks for conceding the point that Muslims (those who actually practice the religion, and follow the book) are bad though.

[Sean Hayden]

If instead you expect to see them teaching a more acceptable Islam you won't be disappointed.

If Islam starts including and protecting freedom of speech and freedom of reading/watching/listening, then I will not be disappointed.

If they continue to push Sharia, then I see them as unable to think about, speak about or write about the important matters.

First, I doubt you're keeping up with what Islam is doing, so this is a bit of weird thing to say --not bad, just weird. (I do this sort of thing too, and it must be weird then as well.) Second, are you looking to take Islam seriously or to convert to Islam if it becomes more reasonable?

I thought we were discussing how dangerous Muslims are because of Islam.

Islam as a political ideology is interesting. I haven't got the time to study it in detail though. Nor do I have any desire to take it seriously as an alternative to what we've got.

[Cunt]

If instead you expect to see them teaching a more acceptable Islam you won't be disappointed.

If Islam starts including and protecting freedom of speech and freedom of reading/watching/listening, then I will not be disappointed.

If they continue to push Sharia, then I see them as unable to think about, speak about or write about the important matters.

First I doubt you're keeping up with what Islam is doing, so this is a bit of weird thing to say --not bad, just weird. (I do this sort of thing too, and it must be weird then as well.) Second, are you looking to take Islam seriously or to convert to Islam if it becomes more reasonable?

I thought we were discussing how dangerous Muslims are because of Islam.

Islam as a political ideology is interesting. I haven't got the time to study it in detail though. Nor do I have any desire to take it seriously as an alternative to what we've got.

Political ideology or religious ideology? Do those parts need separating?