Sure, and how he's been "variously described" is not evidence in a criminal court. Good thing, too. Manafort's guilt turns on his own culpability. It's not looking good for him in the trial on a number of issues. But the fact that employees engage in illegal activities or business partners turn out to be crooks is not itself evidence of culpability of Manafort himself.Brian Peacock wrote: ↑Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:05 amSo is Gates merely Manafort's employee, as suggested, or more of a business partner (apart from being his co-conspirator)? He started at Manafort, Black and Stone, has held various executive positions with Manafort and a number of Russian and Ukrainian entities, and has been variously described as Manafort's protege, right-hand man, and even his consigliere.
Washington Post profile.
US v Manafort
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Re: US v Manafort
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
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Re: US v Manafort
FIFY2BarnettNewman wrote: ↑Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:28 pmFIFYForty Two wrote:That's what the thread is for - to continue the discussion as the case progresses partisan speculation - just like every other thread.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
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Re: US v Manafort
PJ is a Nazi. I'll punch him next time I see him. He carries water for the alt right racist, homophobic, Islamophobes. He should have his platform taken away. Not censored, mind you - just not allowed to publish his hateful ideas.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
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Re: US v Manafort
I don't know who suggested that "variously described" is submissible evidence in court, but it wasn't me. What I was questioning is whetger referring to Gates only as an paid underling honestly reflects the nature of his and Manafort's personal and professional relationship - which I'm sure you'll agree is something which is of legitimate interest to the court as well as being something which will have had a bearing on their alleged criminal activity.Forty Two wrote:Sure, and how he's been "variously described" is not evidence in a criminal court. Good thing, too. Manafort's guilt turns on his own culpability. It's not looking good for him in the trial on a number of issues. But the fact that employees engage in illegal activities or business partners turn out to be crooks is not itself evidence of culpability of Manafort himself.Brian Peacock wrote: ↑Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:05 amSo is Gates merely Manafort's employee, as suggested, or more of a business partner (apart from being his co-conspirator)? He started at Manafort, Black and Stone, has held various executive positions with Manafort and a number of Russian and Ukrainian entities, and has been variously described as Manafort's protege, right-hand man, and even his consigliere.
Washington Post profile.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: US v Manafort
--since fucking when? Why is the burden of proof so high for these assholes man?But the fact that employees engage in illegal activities or business partners turn out to be crooks is not itself evidence of culpability of Manafort himsel
--//--
Oh wait, omg, is justice trickle down too! Holy Shit! Trickle Down Justice y'all!
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I think it all depends on what your definition of "is" is. Or something like that.
But it wasn't me. Musta been somebody what look like me.
But it wasn't me. Musta been somebody what look like me.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.
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Re: US v Manafort
The money was just resting in his account before he moved it on... Just resting.... A good, long rest..
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Just another libertarian. No worse than Ann Coulter and mostly funnier.
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Re: US v Manafort
Well that goes without saying.Forty Two wrote: ↑Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:09 pmFIFY2BarnettNewman wrote: ↑Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:28 pmFIFYForty Two wrote:That's what the thread is for - to continue the discussion as the case progresses partisan speculation - just like every other thread.
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Re: US v Manafort
Libertarianism is just a dog whistle for alt right Nazi. Having discussions about censorship is really peddling Nazism. https://pjmedia.com/video/protestors-dr ... ech-panel/Tero wrote: ↑Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:53 pmJust another libertarian. No worse than Ann Coulter and mostly funnier.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
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Re: US v Manafort
Since always. I mean, if I have employees and one of them robs a customer, am I guilty? Not if I didn't know anything about it, or do anything to encourage it.Sean Hayden wrote: ↑Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:26 pm--since fucking when? Why is the burden of proof so high for these assholes man?But the fact that employees engage in illegal activities or business partners turn out to be crooks is not itself evidence of culpability of Manafort himsel
And, the burden of proof is always on the prosecution and always "beyond a reasonable doubt." Courts generally explain to juries that the defendant being an otherwise bad guy is not relevant - the reasonable doubt needs to be raised about the specific offenses charged. Smearing the defendant as probably guilty of something, even if not what is charged, is a violation of due process and the right to be tried under the standard of proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
Not sure what that means.Sean Hayden wrote: ↑Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:26 pm
--//--
Oh wait, omg, is justice trickle down too! Holy Shit! Trickle Down Justice y'all!
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
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Re: US v Manafort
Gates' capacity in relation to Manafort is, of course, relevant to the case, and the burden of the prosecution to show.Brian Peacock wrote: ↑Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:19 pm
I don't know who suggested that "variously described" is submissible evidence in court, but it wasn't me. What I was questioning is whetger referring to Gates only as an paid underling honestly reflects the nature of his and Manafort's personal and professional relationship - which I'm sure you'll agree is something which is of legitimate interest to the court as well as being something which will have had a bearing on their alleged criminal activity.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
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Re: US v Manafort
It means you're ignoring how the world works because you believe the defense of these principles in this case has an affect on all cases everywhere..dramatic music plays in the background....Forty Two wrote: ↑Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:10 amSince always. I mean, if I have employees and one of them robs a customer, am I guilty? Not if I didn't know anything about it, or do anything to encourage it.Sean Hayden wrote: ↑Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:26 pm--since fucking when? Why is the burden of proof so high for these assholes man?But the fact that employees engage in illegal activities or business partners turn out to be crooks is not itself evidence of culpability of Manafort himsel
And, the burden of proof is always on the prosecution and always "beyond a reasonable doubt." Courts generally explain to juries that the defendant being an otherwise bad guy is not relevant - the reasonable doubt needs to be raised about the specific offenses charged. Smearing the defendant as probably guilty of something, even if not what is charged, is a violation of due process and the right to be tried under the standard of proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
Not sure what that means.Sean Hayden wrote: ↑Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:26 pm
--//--
Oh wait, omg, is justice trickle down too! Holy Shit! Trickle Down Justice y'all!
I mean that's probably not really why you do this. It's just a funny way of making sense of your bizarre behavior.
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Re: US v Manafort
Well, I believe that even the worst and least worthy defendants get the benefit of the presumption of innocence, the burden of proof being on the prosecution, the right not to self-incriminate, the right to a trial by jury if they choose, fair notice, a fair hearing, etc. I think that a liberal defense of those principles is not a statement that the world "works" in a particular way, and it certainly is not a naive view of the way the world actually works.
I don't consider it particularly bizarre to put the burden on the prosecution to prove guilt of the crime charged beyond a reasonable doubt. However, if that's bizarre to you, so be it.
I don't consider it particularly bizarre to put the burden on the prosecution to prove guilt of the crime charged beyond a reasonable doubt. However, if that's bizarre to you, so be it.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
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