Man, the nerve of you. This is embarrassing.
Stupidest idea of the month...so far
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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far
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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far
"But if you leave a space, and wait for body language and wait to make eye contact then you're letting that child know that their response matters." Does it? Will the parent's decision about the nappy change be influenced by the baby's body language in any way at all?Animavore wrote: ↑Sat May 12, 2018 11:49 amExcept Deanna knows herself that, clearly, a baby can't give consent. She says,Hermit wrote: ↑Sat May 12, 2018 11:37 amThe way I see it, you are right in so far ingraining the habit of obtaining consent before doing something to another person by practice is a good idea. Doing that by asking a baby if it is OK to change its nappy is a sham, though. Every parent knows that the baby is incapable of granting or withholding consent, and even if the baby were capable of doing so, the parent would bloody well go ahead and change the nappy anyway. Deanne Carson is letting the politically correct bandwagon carry her into cloud cuckoo territory. Her proposal just adds ammunition to the anti politically correct brigades.Animavore wrote: ↑Sat May 12, 2018 11:00 amIrrelevant. I've no problem with the idea the program is for adult and kids alike. The nappy part, as is clearly explained, is for the adult, as the consent training doesn't start 'til 3 for kids.
This seems to be where you all are getting caught up. You can't separate a part from the whole. You seem to be trying to reason that if the program is for the children (it's actually for parents and children) then the whole must be.
"Yes, just about how to set up a culture of consent in their homes so 'I'm going to change your nappy now, is that OK,' Deanne responded.
"Of course a baby is not going to respond 'yes mum that's awesome, I'd love to have my nappy changed'.
"But if you leave a space, and wait for body language and wait to make eye contact then you're letting that child know that their response matters."
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould
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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far
Except for the part where you said "it's not for the kids"...
Here's what it says:The nappy part, as is clearly explained, is for the adult, as the consent training doesn't start 'til 3 for kids.
Do you understand who "them" is in the sentence above? And do you understand that when the aim is "to teach them", that you sound like a remedial English student when you say "this isn't about the kids"?purple woman wrote:She said she works with children from three years old on issues surrounding consent, but added that parents are advised to introduce ideas much earlier.
Deanne recognised that babies are unable to give an answer, but said it's important to use eye contact to teach them their response matters.
Last edited by pErvinalia on Sat May 12, 2018 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far
It may or may not. I personally doubt it. But I'm not going to dismiss it off hand or label people crazy, or make judgements on their hair (surprised no one went the whole hog and called her a dyke), because they do things differently. Locking kids up for life in the cellar to be used as a personal sex toy is "looney" to me. This is nothing.Hermit wrote: ↑Sat May 12, 2018 12:02 pm"But if you leave a space, and wait for body language and wait to make eye contact then you're letting that child know that their response matters." Does it? Will the parent's decision about the nappy change be influenced by the baby's body language in any way at all?Animavore wrote: ↑Sat May 12, 2018 11:49 amExcept Deanna knows herself that, clearly, a baby can't give consent. She says,Hermit wrote: ↑Sat May 12, 2018 11:37 amThe way I see it, you are right in so far ingraining the habit of obtaining consent before doing something to another person by practice is a good idea. Doing that by asking a baby if it is OK to change its nappy is a sham, though. Every parent knows that the baby is incapable of granting or withholding consent, and even if the baby were capable of doing so, the parent would bloody well go ahead and change the nappy anyway. Deanne Carson is letting the politically correct bandwagon carry her into cloud cuckoo territory. Her proposal just adds ammunition to the anti politically correct brigades.Animavore wrote: ↑Sat May 12, 2018 11:00 amIrrelevant. I've no problem with the idea the program is for adult and kids alike. The nappy part, as is clearly explained, is for the adult, as the consent training doesn't start 'til 3 for kids.
This seems to be where you all are getting caught up. You can't separate a part from the whole. You seem to be trying to reason that if the program is for the children (it's actually for parents and children) then the whole must be.
"Yes, just about how to set up a culture of consent in their homes so 'I'm going to change your nappy now, is that OK,' Deanne responded.
"Of course a baby is not going to respond 'yes mum that's awesome, I'd love to have my nappy changed'.
"But if you leave a space, and wait for body language and wait to make eye contact then you're letting that child know that their response matters."
Libertarianism: The belief that out of all the terrible things governments can do, helping people is the absolute worst.
Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far
Just stop now. Grown ups speaking.pErvinalia wrote: ↑Sat May 12, 2018 12:06 pmExcept for the part where you said "it's not for the kids"...
Here's what it says:The nappy part, as is clearly explained, is for the adult, as the consent training doesn't start 'til 3 for kids.Do you understand who is "them" in the sentence above? And do you understand that when the aim is "to teach them", that you sound like a remedial English student when you say "this isn't about the kids"?purple woman wrote:She said she works with children from three years old on issues surrounding consent, but added that parents are advised to introduce ideas much earlier.
Deanne recognised that babies are unable to give an answer, but said it's important to use eye contact to teach them their response matters.
Libertarianism: The belief that out of all the terrible things governments can do, helping people is the absolute worst.
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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far
You've fucked up. Stop embarrassing yourself.
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"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
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"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far
I see a normal perv discussion has taken place.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".
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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far
Ani should know he's in trouble when Scot's on his side in the debate..
Seriously, he's royally fucked this one up. He's chucked a tantrum pages ago and simply can't back down from that point. I've explained very clearly how this program works and how it is for the benefit of the children in their later life. He just can't accept that he's been arguing against his own bias the whole time.
Seriously, he's royally fucked this one up. He's chucked a tantrum pages ago and simply can't back down from that point. I've explained very clearly how this program works and how it is for the benefit of the children in their later life. He just can't accept that he's been arguing against his own bias the whole time.
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"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far
OK. So we agree on that at least.Animavore wrote: ↑Sat May 12, 2018 12:10 pmI personally doubt it.Hermit wrote: ↑Sat May 12, 2018 12:02 pm"But if you leave a space, and wait for body language and wait to make eye contact then you're letting that child know that their response matters." Does it? Will the parent's decision about the nappy change be influenced by the baby's body language in any way at all?Animavore wrote: ↑Sat May 12, 2018 11:49 amExcept Deanna knows herself that, clearly, a baby can't give consent. She says,Hermit wrote: ↑Sat May 12, 2018 11:37 amThe way I see it, you are right in so far ingraining the habit of obtaining consent before doing something to another person by practice is a good idea. Doing that by asking a baby if it is OK to change its nappy is a sham, though. Every parent knows that the baby is incapable of granting or withholding consent, and even if the baby were capable of doing so, the parent would bloody well go ahead and change the nappy anyway. Deanne Carson is letting the politically correct bandwagon carry her into cloud cuckoo territory. Her proposal just adds ammunition to the anti politically correct brigades.Animavore wrote: ↑Sat May 12, 2018 11:00 amIrrelevant. I've no problem with the idea the program is for adult and kids alike. The nappy part, as is clearly explained, is for the adult, as the consent training doesn't start 'til 3 for kids.
This seems to be where you all are getting caught up. You can't separate a part from the whole. You seem to be trying to reason that if the program is for the children (it's actually for parents and children) then the whole must be.
"Yes, just about how to set up a culture of consent in their homes so 'I'm going to change your nappy now, is that OK,' Deanne responded.
"Of course a baby is not going to respond 'yes mum that's awesome, I'd love to have my nappy changed'.
"But if you leave a space, and wait for body language and wait to make eye contact then you're letting that child know that their response matters."
Well, I never called Deanne Carson crazy either. What I did say is that she is letting the politically correct bandwagon carry her into cloud cuckoo territory. Her proposal just adds ammunition to the anti politically correct brigades.Animavore wrote: ↑Sat May 12, 2018 12:10 pmBut I'm not going to dismiss it off hand or label people crazy, or make judgements on their hair (surprised no one went the whole hog and called her a dyke), because they do things differently. Locking kids up for life in the cellar to be used as a personal sex toy is "looney" to me. This is nothing.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould
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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far
If you're still asking your child if it's OK to change their nappy and they can give you a coherent answer then you've waited too long to teach them to shit in the bog.
But it might not be your fault. You could have asked their permission to teach them to shit in the bog and they refused. There are, after all, adult babies. Who are we to judge?
But it might not be your fault. You could have asked their permission to teach them to shit in the bog and they refused. There are, after all, adult babies. Who are we to judge?
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.
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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far
If I waited for our girl to give her consent to have her nappy changed, she would have been wearing one shitful nappy for the first couple of years of her life. She used to scream blue murder whenever we lay her down on the change table. She'd be kicking and screaming and flinging shit all over the walls and floor. There's no way we could have stepped back and pretended to wait for consent. She would immediately try to sit up and launch herself off the change table the second we laid her down...
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"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far
She could have been worse, rEv.
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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far
And in a broader sense, this "developing a consent culture" program (in early childhood) is not automatically the golden path to eliminating bad male behaviour in later life (to me, it has more than a whiff of new age quackery). Simply good child rearing practices and fostering an overall attitude of respect for others would be enough, plus the change in the zeitgeist which is already beginning.
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!
And my gin!
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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far
More seriously, the poor little thing had colic pretty bad. She had a terrible first 6 months or so. Her brother, on the other hand was a happy laughy little bundle of joy when he was young. They've swapped now, though. She's happy and has a wicked sense of humour, and he's a big cry baby.
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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far
Yeah, this. This is pretty much what I mentioned earlier. It's more about a loving home and teaching your children to respect others (and themselves). I find the hugging idea particularly anti-human, and probably more harmful in the long run than beneficial.JimC wrote: ↑Sat May 12, 2018 11:30 pmAnd in a broader sense, this "developing a consent culture" program (in early childhood) is not automatically the golden path to eliminating bad male behaviour in later life (to me, it has more than a whiff of new age quackery). Simply good child rearing practices and fostering an overall attitude of respect for others would be enough, plus the change in the zeitgeist which is already beginning.
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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
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