*nudge*FBM wrote:Please don't make me.
The Science Delusion [on Ratskep]
Not really so bad, though. He did a lot of good shit, followed up by some really tinfoil-hat shit. As far as I can tell, the good shit he did has had more influence than the batshit Vit. C shit.Xamonas Chegwé wrote: You say that almost like being reminded of Linus Pauling is a good thing.
I honestly wonder how much of that he genuinely believes. I suspect that he may be using it rhetorically, strategicallly merely to rattle some cages. Again, I've only just stumbled upon him today, so I don't have a lot of information to go on yet. I agree that cages need to be rattled from time to time, but not that just any old off-the-wall bullshit should be proposed in the effort.Hermit wrote:I think his talk was binned, and rightfully so, because he maintained that telepathy is real and the mind stretches out from the body to the extent that kind of touches the stars, and backed those claims up with no more than typical new age hand waving. His comments on the constancy of the speed of light and the force of gravity were humorously delivered and thought provoking, though. Had Skeldrake expanded on that sort of instead of taking off into fairy land, the TED board would either have decided to not bin the talk or finished up with tremendous amounts of egg on face. By going off the deep end he has also provided a convenient pretext for the people he criticised not to reply on those matters.
Yes, Feyerabend. Also Kuhn and not so recently, David Hume. You could go as far back as Plato's cave for trenchant epistemological analyses, and there were several other Greek philosophers who to one extent or another anticipated what later minds had to say on the matter.FBM wrote:I honestly wonder how much of that he genuinely believes. I suspect that he may be using it rhetorically, strategicallly merely to rattle some cages. Again, I've only just stumbled upon him today, so I don't have a lot of information to go on yet. I agree that cages need to be rattled from time to time, but not that just any old off-the-wall bullshit should be proposed in the effort.
For example, science (if I may be forgiven for the anthropomorphization) does presume a number of things that it can't prove, such as the assumption that the physical laws we've ascertained apply pervasively throughout the entire universe. While I understand the utility of such an assumption, I do have to admit that it is, strictly speaking, unproven. However, that doesn't entail "pixies in the garden" sort of claims. If he were wise, he'd rein that sort of thing in a bit. There's a philosopher of science whose name escapes me at the moment who does a much better version of the Emperor's New Clothes thing wrt scientific assumptions, but without going over the edge into all that paranormal crap. I will search for his name and get back to you on it.
Edit: Paul Feyerabend
Well, that's a fucking red flag if there ever was one.Hermit wrote:...It turns out that Deepak Chopra very much approves of Sheldrake for bringing religion and science together.
That pretty much sums up most discussions on him.FBM wrote:I've only just run across him. I gather that he has a reputation. Seems he would be easy to villify using guilt by association, no doubt.JimC wrote:Sheldrake, eh?
The pixies at the bottom of his garden cleared off because he was stalking them all the time...
Mr.Samsa wrote:far too often people will swing so far away from him that they'll deny uncontroversial points simply to avoid agreeing with him. He does make some good points in "The Science Delusion" and they are worthwhile things to discuss - arguably they are outlined in more detail and more eloquently by other people but I think he does a decent enough job. However, as you say, because he goes into the crazy stuff people are forced to deny the simple stuff.
Hermit wrote:I think his talk was binned, and rightfully so, because he maintained that telepathy is real and the mind stretches out from the body to the extent that kind of touches the stars, and backed those claims up with no more than typical new age hand waving. His comments on the constancy of the speed of light and the force of gravity were humorously delivered and thought provoking, though. Had Skeldrake expanded on that sort of instead of taking off into fairy land, the TED board would either have decided to not bin the talk or finished up with tremendous amounts of egg on face. By going off the deep end he has also provided a convenient pretext for the people he criticised not to reply on those matters.
Yep, your comments and a few others in this thread have been great - a refreshing change from the usual comments on the topic. If he kept it to a discussion on the limits of science or the philosophical assumptions of science then it would have been a much more valuable discussion, but the crazy new age shit ruins it.Hermit wrote:Mr.Samsa wrote:far too often people will swing so far away from him that they'll deny uncontroversial points simply to avoid agreeing with him. He does make some good points in "The Science Delusion" and they are worthwhile things to discuss - arguably they are outlined in more detail and more eloquently by other people but I think he does a decent enough job. However, as you say, because he goes into the crazy stuff people are forced to deny the simple stuff.Hermit wrote:I think his talk was binned, and rightfully so, because he maintained that telepathy is real and the mind stretches out from the body to the extent that kind of touches the stars, and backed those claims up with no more than typical new age hand waving. His comments on the constancy of the speed of light and the force of gravity were humorously delivered and thought provoking, though. Had Skeldrake expanded on that sort of instead of taking off into fairy land, the TED board would either have decided to not bin the talk or finished up with tremendous amounts of egg on face. By going off the deep end he has also provided a convenient pretext for the people he criticised not to reply on those matters.
That is a gross representation. It does not reflect well on you at all.Tero wrote:Whooptedoo! He reads old books and "measures" the speed of light.
It obviously proves telepathy!
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