UK: Two servicemen die in endurance training exercise

[klr]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-23308215

Two servicemen have died during a training exercise in hot conditions in the Brecon Beacons in Powys.

A third man is in a serious condition in hospital following the incident late on Saturday afternoon.

An investigation is taking place but it is understood live ammunition was not involved.

It is believed investigations will focus on the weather conditions and the nature of the training exercise.

The deaths occurred on the hottest day of the year so far in Wales with temperatures reaching 30C (86F) in Powys.

Next of kin have been informed, said the Ministry of Defence (MoD).

The MoD said in a statement: "The MoD can confirm that it is working with Dyfed-Powys Police to investigate an incident during a training exercise on the Brecon Beacons on Saturday in which two members of military personnel died.

"The two servicemen's next of kin have been informed. More information will be released in due course but it would be inappropriate to comment further at this stage."

The Brecon Beacons forms one of Wales' national parks and is used for military training because of its relative remoteness.

The infantry regiments of the British Army train at Sennybridge in the area and there is an Army base in Brecon.

Mayor of Brecon and Powys county councillor Matthew Dorrance said: "It's incredibly sad for the friends and family of the people who have lost their lives and thoughts are with the person who is injured.

"In one way we've been blessed with the weather but for people working in this heat, they're tough conditions."

'Challenging terrains'

Mr Dorrance said local people regularly saw troops training in the area and military vehicles parked on the side of the road.

"We're proud of our links with the military in the town," he said.

Maj Alan Davies, who was involved in contingency planning during the first Gulf War, said the Beacons were used by "all sorts of people for all sorts of things".

"On one end of the spectrum you have cadets being taken for mountain walking and at the other end of the spectrum the SAS use it," he said.

"It's one of the most challenging terrains."

Maj Davies said the men may have been carrying very heavy equipment and working to a deadline, which meant they would have been pushing themselves very hard.

"It probably would've been cooler on the Brecon Beacons yesterday than it is in the desert of Afghanistan," he said.

I'll ask the obvious question: How was is possible for these two men to even get into this situation?

[Audley Strange]

They enlisted?

[klr]

Yes ... sort of. According to other some other articles, they were in the Territorial Army - reservists in other words. So that rules some kind of ultra-tough special forces training.

Why wasn't anyone on hand to keep an eye on their condition? Or more likely, why did they not do it properly?

[Audley Strange]

Its certainly tragic, but I've not heard enough to come to any sort of conclusion. Major Davies, while right, is being a bit of a prick about it, though I think they'd probably have had more support even in the Deserts

[piscator]

Yes ... sort of. According to other some other articles, they were in the Territorial Army - reservists in other words. So that rules some kind of ultra-tough special forces training.

Why wasn't anyone on hand to keep an eye on their condition? Or more likely, why did they not do it properly?

Isn't this where SAS has Selection?

Even if it had nothing to do with special forces, a lot of military training is designed to reduce soldiers to quivering babbling masses of misery and exhaustion, then build them back up "in the proper mold".
It sort of sounds like these soldiers not only were not acclimated, but they hid danger signs of dehydration and electrolyte thresholds from those watching, which is quite common in military training.


You never really know what you're capable of until you're put in a position to see. It sounds like these guys volunteered for this and expected to be stretched to the breaking point, and didn't recognize the signs of real problems. Or didn't want to let themselves and their mates down. Or were beyond the point where they could make good decisions.



Last year in my hometown of Seward, Ak, a 65 year-old competitor in the Mt Marathon Race never came down the 3022' (921m) hill after being seen near the top of the brutal sufferfest. He's listed as "Dead", but they never found his corpse.
Another year, a hot race day, an elite mountain runner who had won the race previously passed smooth-the-fuck out in the race lead and skidded on his chin on 4th Avenue, 15 yards from the finish line. This after he had run up 3.1 miles in 37 minutes, and took less than 8 minutes coming down...




http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/0 ... 46055.html

[JacksSmirkingRevenge]

Irrefutable proof that exercise is bad for you.



Sent from my chair using absolutely no effort whatsoever.

[mistermack]

Yes ... sort of. According to other some other articles, they were in the Territorial Army - reservists in other words. So that rules some kind of ultra-tough special forces training.

Why wasn't anyone on hand to keep an eye on their condition? Or more likely, why did they not do it properly?

The SAS have a lot of territorials, and always have had. They do exactly the same routines as the regulars.
My brother was a territorial in the SAS for a while, back in the mid sixties, long before the public had ever heard of the SAS.

He used to bore me stiff with tales of how fit they were, how they ran up and down mountains with fifty-pound packs etc.
( which I knew he couldn't do, so I took it with a pinch of salt. I was fitter than him, and I couldn't do that stuff ).

But for TWO to die from exertion, and one in a serious condition, that's something pretty special. Someone has gone WAY over the top. Possibly by making them do something in thirty degrees heat, that had been done many times before, in cooler weather.

[Rum]

I used to live in Hereford, the home of the SAS. The SAS themselves never socialised in town that I was aware of but ex-members and wannabes often frequented the same pubs I did back then. They were almost universally dim young (and not so young) men whose idea of being a man was to be able to beat the shit out of anyone they didn't like the look of. A nasty lot for the most part.

Still that's why they need 'em I guess.

[mistermack]

It certainly sounds like the SAS, as they have one of the highest percentages of Territorials, and the fact that it's the Brecons.
Also, it's unlikely that territorials in any other outfit would push themselves to death.

I always took notice of anything SAS related, because of the time when my brother was in it.
I don't think the facts ever matched the myth.
Yes, they are generally extremely fit. But I agree, they are not chosen for their intelligence. Mainly, just for physical endurance.

The Iranian Embassy siege was massively over-hyped. Basically, they executed people who were mostly ready to surrender.
It didn't tak a lot of doing, and there wasn't much resistance. But it made them famous.

The next big thing was at the start of the Falklands campaign. They were dropped onto an Isand in the South Alantic by helicopter.
But they were too cold, and radioed for another chopper to come and get them. It was a fiasco and failure, but you had to read the small print, to find it out.

The press just love to big them up, for some reason. Most of it is hype, but it's true about the addiction to fitness.
The only full-time one I've come across, was the brother of a woman I knew.
Everyone who met him thought he was mental. He seemed to be permanently paranoid, jumping at the slightest noise.
I had a feeling it was an act.

[tattuchu]

I'm confused because 86 F really isn't all that hot

[mistermack]

I'm confused because 86 F really isn't all that hot

Depends what you're doing, and what you're wearing.

But it shows a basic weakness. If I was running an army, the first thing I would want the soldiers to learn is how not to kill yourself.
It's the first lesson of survival.

Not a good advert for the British Army.

[Audley Strange]

I used to live in Hereford, the home of the SAS. The SAS themselves never socialised in town that I was aware of but ex-members and wannabes often frequented the same pubs I did back then. They were almost universally dim young (and not so young) men whose idea of being a man was to be able to beat the shit out of anyone they didn't like the look of. A nasty lot for the most part.

Still that's why they need 'em I guess.

I used to work beside a guy who was in his fifties at the time and used to come into work reading all those Harry McNab Fist Bum Zero type books (I dunno what they're called, they're beneath my notice), who made all these preposterous claims about his time in the "Services" which no one believed. He was one of those guys who always had a story about who he fucked or who he fucked up, every weekend. As it turned out one of the dudes in H.R. who was sick of his shit was having lunch one day, while the tit was holding court to his junior hard-on brigade. I can't remember what he was talking about, something to do with him being in the Gulf War. Bill (H.R. guy) walked up to him and said something like "I checked, according to your records you worked in a printers for 20 years until you started here. Now did you lie to us on your application form, that's a sackable offence."

His squirming uncomfortable reaction was terrific as he had to admit there and then he was talking shit. Ah such laughs were had.