Guns used for lawful self defense Pt. 4

[Seth]

Don't really care too much for criminals but the sort of people who think its a good idea hunting them in a house when you are no longer under threat as just as likely to take a pot shot at the postman or the nearest school

And you can sustain this allegation with what data, exactly? More bum custard?

[Collector1337]

Don't really care too much for criminals but the sort of people who think its a good idea hunting them in a house when you are no longer under threat as just as likely to take a pot shot at the postman or the nearest school

You are ridiculously stupid.

You are "just as likely" to rape a 9 year old Emma Watson had you had the chance.

See how your logic works?

[laklak]

It's extremely difficult to quantify gun ownership in the U.S. Since there is no national registration we have to rely on self-reported surveys. Now, I know for a fact that a good percentage of gun owners I know would lie about it. I probably would, to be honest. It's no one's business if or how many guns I own. I can only speak from my Southern experience, but damn near everyone I know owns at least one gun. Now, that could be because of where I live but also who I hang around with, since I'm not likely to be found passing cookies out at an Obama rally.

I just did a bit of a whirlwind trip through northern Florida, Georgia, North Carolina and eastern Tennessee, looking for acreage to buy. Stayed in several towns, talked to a bunch of realtors, bartenders, waiters, hotel employees, charter boat captains, marina workers, etc. It doesn't take long until they're trying to suss out what your position on guns is, some people just come right out and ask. Point is, I didn't meet one single person, not one, that didn't own a gun or guns or who supported any sort of weapons bans. One guy said he'd like to see the "gun show loophole" closed, but he was then only one. Maybe it's entirely different up north or out on the pacific coast, I don't live there and am very unlikely ever to do so. I'm a bit skeptical of any claims that gun ownership is declining.

[Blind groper]

Laklak

The claim was not that gun ownership was declining. Just that it was becoming concentrated into fewer hands.

There have been numerous reports of greater gun sales to gun enthusiasts. This is especially true over the past year, but is true to a lesser extent right back to when Obama became president. According to the reports I have read, when there is a perceived threat of stronger gun control, the gun nutters go out and buy more guns.

Seth admitted buying more guns in anticipation of tighter gun control. This appears to be a quite widespread, though paranoid, response.

[Seth]

It's extremely difficult to quantify gun ownership in the U.S. Since there is no national registration we have to rely on self-reported surveys.

We do have some very hard data, and that is the number of guns manufactured or imported in any given year for domestic sale. It's rational to presume that the vast majority of those arms (about 8 million of them last year) are sold to the private market, and that the market is not saturated because the annual number of guns manufactured continues to rise...rather dramatically at the moment.

Now, I know for a fact that a good percentage of gun owners I know would lie about it. I probably would, to be honest. It's no one's business if or how many guns I own. I can only speak from my Southern experience, but damn near everyone I know owns at least one gun. Now, that could be because of where I live but also who I hang around with, since I'm not likely to be found passing cookies out at an Obama rally.

Yup. We've become very, very reticent to share that information because it might get back to the government. For example, Obamacare pressures doctors to ask about firearms in the home during exams, particularly OF CHILDREN, and the are encouraged to document the results. These results will be available to the IRS, and therefore to the BATFE and the rest of the government under Obamacare. This is a back-door way of locating guns in society which we are very concerned about.

I just did a bit of a whirlwind trip through northern Florida, Georgia, North Carolina and eastern Tennessee, looking for acreage to buy. Stayed in several towns, talked to a bunch of realtors, bartenders, waiters, hotel employees, charter boat captains, marina workers, etc. It doesn't take long until they're trying to suss out what your position on guns is, some people just come right out and ask. Point is, I didn't meet one single person, not one, that didn't own a gun or guns or who supported any sort of weapons bans. One guy said he'd like to see the "gun show loophole" closed, but he was then only one. Maybe it's entirely different up north or out on the pacific coast, I don't live there and am very unlikely ever to do so. I'm a bit skeptical of any claims that gun ownership is declining.

Yes, it's pretty much only in the liberal enclaves like California, the Northeast and Rust Belt (Chicago/Detroit). Unfortunately, that's also where the bulk of the population lives, so there's a lot of voting power that can be used to infringe on the rights of everyone else.

[Seth]

Laklak

The claim was not that gun ownership was declining. Just that it was becoming concentrated into fewer hands.

And yet you have no reliable data to prove this. What you have are estimates by liberal organizations who have a vested interest in the Big Lie of convincing people that gun owners are anomalies and outliers in society, which I believe is categorically not true.

There have been numerous reports of greater gun sales to gun enthusiasts.

Lie. There have been numerous reports of gun sales to people, and almost no data of any use on whether they are already gun owners or not. You're manufacturing factoids here.

This is especially true over the past year, but is true to a lesser extent right back to when Obama became president. According to the reports I have read, when there is a perceived threat of stronger gun control, the gun nutters go out and buy more guns.

I'm sure gun owners do, but I'm equally sure that non gun owners, seeing the potential of their access being dried up, are buying their first gun in record numbers. Nobody really knows, but your claim is just bum custard you use to try to minimize the fact that tens of millions of new guns have entered society.

Seth admitted buying more guns in anticipation of tighter gun control. This appears to be a quite widespread, though paranoid, response.

Um, it's hardly paranoid to buy more semi-automatic sporting rifles when there is an agenda in play to ban them completely. You certainly aren't arguing that Obama and his minions AREN'T trying to do just that are you? If so, you're an idiot who needs to read some hard news.

The simple fact is that they ARE out to get us, so our fears are quite reasonable and rational.

[Seth]

This is why police need WAY more firearms training. There is a nasty habit of police officers emptying their guns whenever they shoot, and this is an example of why that's bad, outright negligent training:

Campus
Report: Hofstra Student Was Shot, Killed by Cop Trying To Rescue Her
May. 18, 2013 9:47pm Dave Urbanski

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9
0
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MINEOLA, N.Y. (TheBlaze/AP) — Authorities say a police officer’s bullet killed a New York college student during the response to a home invasion at an off-campus home.

Nassau County homicide squad Lt. John Azzata said Saturday night that Andrea Rebello was killed by a police officer as she was being held in a headlock by a masked intruder.
Police Say Hofstra Student Andrea Rebello Shot and Killed by Cops Trying to Rescue Her During Home Invasion

Andrea Rubello, a junior at Hofstra University in Hempstead, N.Y., was shot and killed Friday, May 17, 2013, during a break-in near the college campus. (AP Photo/Sleepy Hollow High School)

Azzata says the police officer opened fire as Dalton Smith made a motion to fire at the officer early Friday morning.

Azzata says the officer fired eight shots, hitting Smith seven times and Rebello once in the head, killing her.

One shot well placed is all that's needed. Trigger control is very important.

[Blind groper]

Seth

Once more you put words in my mouth. Yes, there is a move by Obama and his supporters for more gun control, which is also supported by all sane Americans. Sadly, in the corrupt political system you guys live with, minority interests are able to buy votes, meaning such changes will not succeed.

Gun nutters are paranoid, and rush out to buy more guns, even though extra gun control, though eminently desirable, is most unlikely to happen.

[Seth]

Seth

Once more you put words in my mouth. Yes, there is a move by Obama and his supporters for more gun control,

No, there's a move by Obama and his minions to BAN guns and confiscate them. "Reasonable gun control measures" is Newspeak for "turn the water up on the froggy again."

which is also supported by all sane Americans.

There's a fallacy for that...circumstantial ad hominem perhaps? I forget.

Sadly, in the corrupt political system you guys live with, minority interests are able to buy votes, meaning such changes will not succeed.

Has nothing to do with buying votes, it has to do with our fundamental rights and founding document, which says "...the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." That's the law of our land.

Gun nutters are paranoid, and rush out to buy more guns, even though extra gun control, though eminently desirable, is most unlikely to happen.

If I have anything to say about it...

[Blind groper]

Sadly, Seth, you are almost certainly correct in assessing that more gun control is unlikely. The excessive and easily prevented murder toll will continue. Makes me sad to ponder the sheer selfishness and stupidity that costs so many lives.

[Seth]

Sadly, Seth, you are almost certainly correct in assessing that more gun control is unlikely. The excessive and easily prevented murder toll will continue. Makes me sad to ponder the sheer selfishness and stupidity that costs so many lives.

Beats the cost of a disarmed citizenry, which is up near a hundred million so far in the last century or so.

[MrJonno]

Sadly, Seth, you are almost certainly correct in assessing that more gun control is unlikely. The excessive and easily prevented murder toll will continue. Makes me sad to ponder the sheer selfishness and stupidity that costs so many lives.

Beats the cost of a disarmed citizenry, which is up near a hundred million so far in the last century or so.

It was very well armed citizenry that did all the killing in the last century, rednecks with guns is a very good description of the people who ran concentration camps

[Blind groper]

More importantly is the fact that high wartime death tolls have plummeted since WWII. Civilian murders in the USA have been higher. Throughout the time of the Viet Nam war, for every American soldier killed over there, two civilians were murdered at home. Since hand guns kill half of all American murder victims, that means a civilian murdered with a hand gun for every soldier killed in Viet Nam.

Viet Nam was the worst war for American deaths in the last 50 years. It was stopped, but the hand gun carnage continues.

How stupid that Americans accept this when the solution is easy. All other western nations took hand guns out of civilian hands, and their murder rates, especially hand gun murder rates, are a small fraction of that of the USA.

[Collector1337]

More importantly is the fact that high wartime death tolls have plummeted since WWII. Civilian murders in the USA have been higher. Throughout the time of the Viet Nam war, for every American soldier killed over there, two civilians were murdered at home. Since hand guns kill half of all American murder victims, that means a civilian murdered with a hand gun for every soldier killed in Viet Nam.

Viet Nam was the worst war for American deaths in the last 50 years. It was stopped, but the hand gun carnage continues.

How stupid that Americans accept this when the solution is easy. All other western nations took hand guns out of civilian hands, and their murder rates, especially hand gun murder rates, are a small fraction of that of the USA.

So, ban hand guns, but AR-15s are okay?

[Blind groper]

Collector

I have consistently identified hand guns as the main problem. An assault rifle cannot be tucked in a back pocket, hidden from anyone else, and pulled out when its owner loses his temper or gets nasty drunk.

The stats are clear. Five sixths of all firearms murders are done with hand guns, and only one sixth with all other kinds of firearms. Hand guns are the problem, and should be removed from civilian ownership. Other nations have done this, and their murder rate is a fraction of the hand gun toting USA.