The wall of shame - right wingdings got it real wrong

[Seth]

Now This Is What I Believe In But Is It Marxism

All People Have Right To Self Determination
Legalisation Of Euthanasia [ With Limits ]
Universal Abolition Of The Death Penalty
Legalisation Of Abortion [ With Limits ]
All Parliaments To Be Accountable
Every One Equal Under The Law
A Free National Health Service
Legalisation Of Prostitution
Abolition Of The Monarchy
Legalisation Of All Drugs
Trial By Judge And Jury
Absolute Free Speech
Free Welfare System

It's not Marxism. It's not even socialism. It's social democracy.

Except for that one little thing that destroys all the rest..."Free Welfare System."

A "social democracy" that steals from the productive class to support the dependent class is, at its core, Marxism, which is all about class warfare and equality of misery.

[aspire1670]

Now This Is What I Believe In But Is It Marxism

All People Have Right To Self Determination
Legalisation Of Euthanasia [ With Limits ]
Universal Abolition Of The Death Penalty
Legalisation Of Abortion [ With Limits ]
All Parliaments To Be Accountable
Every One Equal Under The Law
A Free National Health Service
Legalisation Of Prostitution
Abolition Of The Monarchy
Legalisation Of All Drugs
Trial By Judge And Jury
Absolute Free Speech
Free Welfare System

It's not Marxism. It's not even socialism. It's social democracy.

Except for that one little thing that destroys all the rest..."Free Welfare System."

A right wing Marxism that steals from the productive class to support a dependent class of column dodgers like me is, at its core, Libertarianism which is all about class warfare and equality of misery for others but not for me. I inherited my basement so I'm alright, Jack..

FIFY
Shorter Seth: "It's all about me

[surreptitious57]

Except for that one little thing that destroys all the rest . . . Free Welfare System

A social democracy that steals from the productive class to support the dependent class is at its core Marxism

So not having a free welfare system would apparently, be better. But those who could not support themselves by legitimate means, would have to resort to crime, if the state abdicated its responsibility to them. And that would then cost the tax payer, for the simple reason it is more expensive to send someone to jail than it is to pay them unemployment benefit
And it is not just for the jobless either, but also low earners on minimum wage, who although working, can not afford a basic standard of living and therefore need financial assistance. It is a fallacy to assume you can be totally self sufficient
all your working life, and even if you do end up being so, there is no guarantee of it now. So dependency on welfare is
some times necessary. And it is the duty of the state to support its citizens, in this respect when required. So it is not about class but making sure that those who do not have, are provided for. And that means those who have, pay for it

[Drewish]

Meh, Obama keeps killing brown people with our tax dollars. The Patriot Act still stands. He's deported more illegals in 4 years than Bush Jr did in 8. Yet the left keeps bragging about how they keep winning elections. Yeah, sure, you win the election as a party, but as far as values and policies go, the Neo-cons have taken control of your party, but you're too tribal and deluded to see it. Or maybe you're just in denial that the new Democratic strategy is to make the Republicans obsolete by becoming Republicans themselves.

[JimC]

better a wise and well meaning tyrant than a mob of ignorant morons

That would be true if the tyrant was me, but I am highly doubtful about the rest of you arseholes...

[JimC]

Except for that one little thing that destroys all the rest . . . Free Welfare System

A social democracy that steals from the productive class to support the dependent class is at its core Marxism

So not having a free welfare system would apparently, be better. But those who could not support themselves by legitimate means, would have to resort to crime, if the state abdicated its responsibility to them. And that would then cost the tax payer, for the simple reason it is more expensive to send someone to jail than it is to pay them unemployment benefit
And it is not just for the jobless either, but also low earners on minimum wage, who although working, can not afford a basic standard of living and therefore need financial assistance. It is a fallacy to assume you can be totally self sufficient
all your working life, and even if you do end up being so, there is no guarantee of it now. So dependency on welfare is
some times necessary. And it is the duty of the state to support its citizens, in this respect when required. So it is not about class but making sure that those who do not have, are provided for. And that means those who have, pay for it

There is a balance, which is used in practice in most social democracies. Typically, it will be too easy to rort (from Seth's perspective, which has a grain of truth - there are significant numbers of loafers, who must be deterred to an extent), and too harsh (from many a leftist perspective). Extremists say all sorts of absolutist nonsense, while pragmatists compromise and find some sort of workable solution. If you are attacked equally by all the extremes, you are probably doing it right...

[Svartalf]

My arsehole is fitter to be tyrant than any of the 2000 or so people who are reps, senators, gummint members etc are to occupy the office they have.

[JimC]

Vote 1 Svarty's arsehole!



(you're lucky it's me posting that, and not Lozzer... )

[pErvinalia]

Meh, Obama keeps killing brown people with our tax dollars. The Patriot Act still stands. He's deported more illegals in 4 years than Bush Jr did in 8. Yet the left keeps bragging about how they keep winning elections. Yeah, sure, you win the election as a party, but as far as values and policies go, the Neo-cons have taken control of your party, but you're too tribal and deluded to see it. Or maybe you're just in denial that the new Democratic strategy is to make the Republicans obsolete by becoming Republicans themselves.

Who are you talking about? Virtually everyone I know on the left is extremely critical of Obama.

[Drewish]

Meh, Obama keeps killing brown people with our tax dollars. The Patriot Act still stands. He's deported more illegals in 4 years than Bush Jr did in 8. Yet the left keeps bragging about how they keep winning elections. Yeah, sure, you win the election as a party, but as far as values and policies go, the Neo-cons have taken control of your party, but you're too tribal and deluded to see it. Or maybe you're just in denial that the new Democratic strategy is to make the Republicans obsolete by becoming Republicans themselves.

Who are you talking about? Virtually everyone I know on the left is extremely critical of Obama.

Are you in the UK? I live in NY, and there's no shortage of die hard Obama fans here.

[pErvinalia]

Well, my avatar should be a give away as to where I'm from. I think a lot of love for Obama can be understood as shear relief that the batshit insane party didn't win. I share that same relief, but I think Obama is a neocon as bad as the rest of them. I'm a very strong supported in the idea of voting 3rd party. Sure, the nutbags will get in for a while, but if nothing shakes up the status quo, the centre of US politics will continue its inevitable march to the right. As you can see, Obama is to the right of Nixon and Bush Snr, and probably not that different to Reagan.

[Robert_S]

You don't like Obama? Blame whoever elevated Palin to the level of VP candidate. Sure, she made a media splash at first, but when shit got real in the form a seriously crashing economy, the nation turned to the bimbo-free ticket.

[Seth]

Shorter Seth: "It's all about me

Yes, I agree that Marxism and Socialism are all about selfish greed on the part of the individual.

[aspire1670]

Shorter Seth: "It's all about me

Yes, I agree that Marxism and Socialism are all about selfish greed on the part of the individual.

Yep, that's why you're a right wing Marxist, Seth because it's all about you. Do keep up.

[Drewish]

The bully tactics used against Seth have to make one (or at least any reasonable person) admire that he continues to attempt to express his opinion. I feel this way when we agree (on economic issues) and when we disagree (on religious issues). That the atheists I know seem to be more predisposed to the group thought assery is seriously making me consider if I'm making a mistake backing the Libertarians over the Republicans.