US Prez Election 2012 Thread - Opinions and Discussions

[Warren Dew]

Taking out my frustration at the betrayal of liberal ideals by the Democratic party over the past few decades, more like. When I grew up, "liberal" meant one supported freedom and tolerance. Under Pelosi and Obama, the Democrats have instead finished coalescing solely around the intolerant, authoritarian elements of the party, leaving actual liberals no place in the American left.

Maybe I just grew up at the wrong time, during the period when Nixon drove the actual liberals into the arms of the Democrats for a couple of brief decades, before the Democrats managed to reject them too.

[Ian]

Taking out my frustration at the betrayal of liberal ideals by the Democratic party over the past few decades, more like. When I grew up, "liberal" meant one supported freedom and tolerance. Under Pelosi and Obama, the Democrats have instead finished coalescing solely around the intolerant, authoritarian elements of the party, leaving actual liberals no place in the American left.

Maybe I just grew up at the wrong time, during the period when Nixon drove the actual liberals into the arms of the Democrats for a couple of brief decades, before the Democrats managed to reject them too.

I honestly don't know what you're talking about, sorry. At least, I don't know how well you can quantify such statements.

I will say that I think the Democrats have (at least on economic issues, arguably on some foreign policy) generally drifted to the right just as the Republicans drifted even further to the right for the last thirty years. As for social issues though, I have no doubt that Democrats/liberals have been becoming increasingly more liberal for much longer than that.

[Warren Dew]

I'm not talking about a left/right axis. I'm talking about a liberal/authoritarian axis, where "liberal" is used in the classical sense, and not in the current debased sense as a synonym for "leftist".

Edit: but yes, I certainly believe you don't know what I'm talking about.

[Warren Dew]

Looks like Ron Paul just won Minnesota

The RNC National Committeewoman for the state of Minnesota reports in this Tweet that Ron Paul takes 20 of 24 Congressional District delegates to the Republican National Convention from Minnesota:
16 more delegates are yet to be awarded, three at large delegates and 13 to be awarded at State Convention, so Ron Paul has half of the delegates for the state of Minnesota, already!

http://wetheconservatives.com/ron-paul- ... minnesota/
Out of the 24, Mittens got 1, Santorum got 2, and one unknown.

16 delegates left to select, but with Paul at 20 he has won.

I just got an email from the Romney campaign talking about "How to Caucus in Massachusetts". I wonder if I can change my registration from independent to Republican in time for the vote on Saturday.

[Tero]

I'll make a call now:

Romney wins by getting Florida by 50 votes. Several recounts, Supreme court etc. Like Bush.

House goes to Democrats by a small margin.

[Ian]

I'm not talking about a left/right axis. I'm talking about a liberal/authoritarian axis, where "liberal" is used in the classical sense, and not in the current debased sense as a synonym for "leftist".

Edit: but yes, I certainly believe you don't know what I'm talking about.

Funny you should explain these axes to me, seeing as how I already had to explain them to you:
http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... an#p980293

[Warren Dew]

Funny you should explain these axes to me, seeing as how I already had to explain them to you:
http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... an#p980293

Yes, I know; you didn't understand the concept of orthogonality in that post, either.

[Ian]

Funny you should explain these axes to me, seeing as how I already had to explain them to you:
http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... an#p980293

Yes, I know; you didn't understand the concept of orthogonality in that post, either.

Sure I do. I just think it's something that's supposed to stay within the confines of mathematics. You were trying to explain how being too far on the left and the right is the same thing, that both extremes want a large degree of state power. And I had to explain that you were referring to a completely different political axis.

[Warren Dew]

Yes, I know; you didn't understand the concept of orthogonality in that post, either.

Sure I do. I just think it's something that's supposed to stay within the confines of mathematics.

Believe it or not, mathematics has many real world applications.

[Ian]

Yes, I know; you didn't understand the concept of orthogonality in that post, either.

Sure I do. I just think it's something that's supposed to stay within the confines of mathematics.

Believe it or not, mathematics has many real world applications.

Hogwash. I don't believe that.

[JimC]

Funny you should explain these axes to me, seeing as how I already had to explain them to you:
http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... an#p980293

Yes, I know; you didn't understand the concept of orthogonality in that post, either.

Sure I do. I just think it's something that's supposed to stay within the confines of mathematics. You were trying to explain how being too far on the left and the right is the same thing, that both extremes want a large degree of state power. And I had to explain that you were referring to a completely different political axis.

"The One On The Right Is On The Left"

There once was a musical troupe
A pickin' singin' folk group
They sang the mountain ballads
And the folk songs of our land

They were long on musical ability
Folks thought they would go far
But political incompatibility led to their downfall

Well, the one on the right was on the left
And the one in the middle was on the right
And the one on the left was in the middle
And the guy in the rear was a Methodist

This musical aggregation toured the entire nation
Singing the traditional ballads
And the folk songs of our land
They performed with great virtuosity
And soon they were the rage
But political animosity prevailed upon the stage

Well, the one on the right was on the left
And the one in the middle was on the right
And the one on the left was in the middle
And the guy in the rear burned his driver's license

Well the curtain had ascended
A hush fell on the crowd
As thousands there were gathered to hear The folk songs of our land
But they took their politics seriously
And that night at the concert hall
As the audience watched deliriously
They had a free-for-all

Well, the one on the right was on the bottom
And the one in the middle was on the top
And the one on the left got a broken arm
And the guy in the rear, said, "Oh dear"

Now this should be a lesson if you plan to start a folk group
Don't go mixin' politics with the folk songs of our land
Just work on harmony and diction
Play your banjo well
And if you have political convictions keep them to yourself

Now, the one on the left works in a bank
And the one in the middle drives a truck
The one on the right's an all-night deejay
And the guy in the rear got drafted

[Tero]

John Lovitz turns conservative. Best comment

They're getting old. That's why they're turning conservative

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2 ... ercent-ers

[laklak]

My prediction - some lying, self-obsessed twat will win the Presidency. Lying, self-obsessed twats will take all Senate and House seats. Life will continue apace, with more work and less money for all!

[Coito ergo sum]

I'll make a call now:

Romney wins by getting Florida by 50 votes. Several recounts, Supreme court etc. Like Bush.

House goes to Democrats by a small margin.

LOL -- and so it begins....

...this is an example of the usual trope....if the 'publicans win, it's because they stole the election. There's always something.

The election system if honorable and fair if the Democrats win. However, during each election, the fear is peddled that the 'publicans can't lose because they've stuffed the ballot box.

If all the fearmongering about how Bush owned Diebold and all that tripe were true, then Obama would never have been elected.

If Romney picks Rubio, Florida will handily go for Romney. The Cuban contingent will see to that.

[Coito ergo sum]

John Lovitz turns conservative. Best comment

They're getting old. That's why they're turning conservative

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2 ... ercent-ers

He made a good point, though. Gotta hand it to 'im.