Christopher Jarvis gets 12 months for child porn.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

FFS, you really don't research anything before you post?

No, he doesn't.

[Seth]

If I was a pedo I'd go get a job with the catlick church, spot my opportunities and have my evil way. I assume this Jarvis twat was targeting a job where he would have access to this kind of stuff, and boy what a cover story!

As it happens, you've just identified exactly why pedophiles got into the church in the first place. A combination of liberalization from Vatican II, poor management and screening policies in the 60s, and cover-ups by a very small number of Bishops.

Any organization where there are children involved is a target for a closet pedophile, from the Boy Scouts to the public schools.

Kinda hard to screen out applicants who have no criminal background history of child sexual abuse who are smart enough to limit their activities to viewing of kiddie porn, which is widely available to literally anyone with a computer.

There weren't any allegations that he abused any children himself, are there?

FFS, you really don't research anything before you post?

Child sexual abuse and pederasty on boys especially has been a repeatedly reported/discussed problem in the church for the last thousand years at least!
http://www.springerlink.com/content/pv666385476j9037/
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1 ... 4v06n02_04
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm? ... _id=755032

And as to why it is entirely logical that such abuses would have found a home already in the early catholic church is explained with painful clarity in this book: Perversion of power: sexual abuse in the Catholic Church, by Mary Gail Frawley-O'Dea. The important parts for understanding the historical perspective of suffering as a religious ideal are freely available on Google Books http://www.google.fi/books?id=UpmMPng7j ... &q&f=false

I dare you to speak of these things without reading the above.

Not interested in paying for the journals you cite, which all appear to discuss the contemporary sex abuse scandal, and the one paper you include that might make such a reference conveniently does not display the pages which might make reference to ancient acts.

But, the fact remains that child sex abuse, however longstanding you might believe it is, has never been an official policy of the church, and it has never been acceptable conduct on the part of priests. While it is true that the church failed to properly screen and supervise priests in recent times to prevent such abuse, it's going to far for anyone to imply that the entire organization is fatally corrupt based on the criminal acts of some 4000 out of 400,000 Catholic priests. Even your citation acknowledges that 90 percent of priests do NOT molest children.

Malefactors and criminals do not define the church except to bigots who see nothing but the bad aspects of an organization of a billion people as a part of a deliberate campaign to malign and disparage religion in general, and Catholicism in particular, that constitutes nothing more than prejudice, hatred and bigotry.

[Ronja]

.

Seth post =

repeat Seth's viewpoint
repeat Seth's viewpoint - repeat Seth's viewpoint
repeat Seth's viewpoint - repeat Seth's viewpoint - repeat Seth's viewpoint
repeat Seth's viewpoint - repeat Seth's viewpoint
repeat Seth's viewpoint

Oh,and admit no own mistakes and forgive no mistakes by others.

= Not a discussion.

Very boring.

[Seth]

Ronja post =

Falsely malign a billion Catholics

Falsely malign a billion Catholics-Falsely malign a billion Catholics
Falsely malign a billion Catholics-Falsely malign a billion Catholics-Falsely malign a billion Catholics
Falsely malign a billion Catholics-Falsely malign a billion Catholics
Falsely malign a billion Catholics

Oh,and never admit that a billion Catholics are not responsible for the criminal acts of 4000 criminals and forgive no mistakes by others.

= Not a discussion.

Very boring.

Pot, kettle, black.

[MrJonno]

Nazi party generally seen to be very evil

Was every German in WW2 evil even those who were a member of the party of course not

Same with the Catholic church, its an evil organisation (calling it the Mafia is incorrect, state sponsored terrorism is more accurate)
Are even the majority of Catholics bad people of course not, are these supporting something that is fundamentally bad definitely

[Pappa]

Not interested in paying for the journals you cite, which all appear to discuss the contemporary sex abuse scandal, and the one paper you include that might make such a reference conveniently does not display the pages which might make reference to ancient acts.

But, the fact remains that child sex abuse, however longstanding you might believe it is, has never been an official policy of the church, and it has never been acceptable conduct on the part of priests. While it is true that the church failed to properly screen and supervise priests in recent times to prevent such abuse, it's going to far for anyone to imply that the entire organization is fatally corrupt based on the criminal acts of some 4000 out of 400,000 Catholic priests. Even your citation acknowledges that 90 percent of priests do NOT molest children.

Malefactors and criminals do not define the church except to bigots who see nothing but the bad aspects of an organization of a billion people as a part of a deliberate campaign to malign and disparage religion in general, and Catholicism in particular, that constitutes nothing more than prejudice, hatred and bigotry.

While your point is valid, it's also a strawman....

Yes, engaging in child sex abuse has never been official policy of the church... but it seems convering it up and not reporting it to the police has been official policy. In some cases, this has led to paedophile priests reoffending after they've been dealt with under Canon law.

[Animavore]

Ronja post =

Falsely malign a billion Catholics

Falsely malign a billion Catholics-Falsely malign a billion Catholics
Falsely malign a billion Catholics-Falsely malign a billion Catholics-Falsely malign a billion Catholics
Falsely malign a billion Catholics-Falsely malign a billion Catholics
Falsely malign a billion Catholics

Oh,and never admit that a billion Catholics are not responsible for the criminal acts of 4000 criminals and forgive no mistakes by others.

= Not a discussion.

Very boring.

Pot, kettle, black.

Seth post = blatantly lie to try fit atheists into his preconceived notion of atheists as bigoted and intolerant.

[Animavore]

Not interested in paying for the journals you cite, which all appear to discuss the contemporary sex abuse scandal, and the one paper you include that might make such a reference conveniently does not display the pages which might make reference to ancient acts.

But, the fact remains that child sex abuse, however longstanding you might believe it is, has never been an official policy of the church, and it has never been acceptable conduct on the part of priests. While it is true that the church failed to properly screen and supervise priests in recent times to prevent such abuse, it's going to far for anyone to imply that the entire organization is fatally corrupt based on the criminal acts of some 4000 out of 400,000 Catholic priests. Even your citation acknowledges that 90 percent of priests do NOT molest children.

Malefactors and criminals do not define the church except to bigots who see nothing but the bad aspects of an organization of a billion people as a part of a deliberate campaign to malign and disparage religion in general, and Catholicism in particular, that constitutes nothing more than prejudice, hatred and bigotry.

While your point is valid, it's also a strawman....

Yes, engaging in child sex abuse has never been official policy of the church... but it seems convering it up and not reporting it to the police has been official policy. In some cases, this has led to paedophile priests reoffending after they've been dealt with under Canon law.

By "dealt with" we just mean "moved to another diocese".

[Animavore]

And I see Seth is still trying to say, Catholic church = Every Catholic on the planet. Maybe that's how the term is used in America (could someone clarify that?) but when we in Ireland say "The Catholic church" or even just "the Church" we mean the organisation. So when I say I hate the Catholic church I mean the organisation, as it stands, at least until it sorts itself out. Our own governement is even considerng seperation of church and state so fed up with them it is. It makes no sense to say that when I say I hate the Catholic church I mean everyone who is a Catholc - that would mean having to hate my own family and friends - some of whom are priests. Or to suggest that I'm trying to malign them, they all agree with me! I mentioned before that I believe this ultra-defense of the Catholic church is an American phenomenon probably based on the fact that Ameica is so multi-denomiational that damage control needs to be effected to keep Catholics from just simply leaving and going to another church (which many are doing from what I hear). An option not readily availible in Ireland. The biggest critics of the church in Ireland are all Catholic. You don't see Irish atheists making the news or the radio shows with their opinions against the church. And even the documentary which really brought the extent of the abuse in the church to light was by a Catholic named Mary Rafferty. And we all remember the Irish Taoseach's damning indictment against them last year for the continuing cover-ups and interference with inquiry, another staunch Catholic.

By Seth's logic when I say "I hate McDonalds" I mean the company, its employees and its patrons. Which makes no sense what-so-ever. So Seth, I'd appreciate you quit with the lies.

[Animavore]

Now that's not to say that some atheists haven't tried to blame every Cahtolic. At least one on RatSkep actually did (the only one I've ever come across to do it, not naming). To which I replied.

[quote="Animavore";p="138298"]

Every Catholic is responsible.

I'm going to bring it up at the next family do, a wedding or whatever, and rub their stupid noses in it.




That was sarcasm in case anyone doesn't recognise it.

Got it. Every Catholic I know is disgusted at the way members of their church has handled this affair and have made that totally clear, in private and in public. But for people here to claim they are "responsible" because they didn't also totally abandon their faith is utterly ludicrous.

Sometimes I see people on Christian forums sneering about how stupid and irrational atheists can be. I think of objecting - then I think of moronic threads like this one.

That's the general consensus in Ireland. But nobody is blaming kindly Father Hurley of our local parish.[/quote]

By the way, Tim is Australian suggesting their Catholics feel the same as ours (and Spains, and Hollands) further convincing me the ultra-defense of the Catholic church is purely American, and led, in fact, by one particualrly odious blow-hard named Bill O'Donohue who recently taunted and mocked victims of abuse.

I mean Seth, c'mon, do you really want to align yourself with this scumbag?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I mean Seth, c'mon, do you really want to align yourself with this scumbag?

Don't make the mistake of thinking Seth actually cares about anything he rants on.

[Animavore]

I mean Seth, c'mon, do you really want to align yourself with this scumbag?

Don't make the mistake of thinking Seth actually cares about anything he rants on.

Well he should. Sticking up for the Catholic church amid the Ryan and Cloyne report is an absolute disgrace. As I said, even Catholics won't do it.

From the Ryan report.

The Commission's report said testimony had demonstrated beyond a doubt that the entire system treated children more like prison inmates and slaves than people with legal rights and human potential, that some religious officials encouraged ritual beatings and consistently shielded their orders amid a "culture of self-serving secrecy", and that government inspectors failed to stop the abuses.

Among the more extreme allegations of abuse were beatings and rapes, subjection to naked beatings in public, being forced into oral sex and even subjection to beatings after failed rape attempts by brothers. The abuse has been described by some as Ireland's Holocaust. The abuse was said to be "endemic" in the institutions that dealt with boys. The UK based Guardian newspaper, described the abuse as "the stuff of nightmares", citing the adjectives used in the report as being particularly chilling: "systemic, pervasive, chronic, excessive, arbitrary, endemic".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission ... h_reaction

From the Cloyne report, last year (no "Way Back Fallacy" here).

Due to the success of the 2009 Murphy Report, a judicial inquiry into the sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic archdiocese of Dublin, the same team was reappointed to investigate allegations surrounding the diocese of Cloyne. Its remit included investigating the state's health and policing practices as well as the Church itself. Judge Murphy's Inquiry issued its report on 13 July 2011.[11][12] The findings of fact included that:

Two-thirds of abuse allegations made in 1996-2009 were not passed on to the Garda, as required by the Church's 1996 guidelines
In a secret letter the Vatican described the Irish bishops' 1996 guidelines to be a "study document", and not a binding set of rules
Bishop Magee had misled the former inquiries by the Health Service Executive (HSE) in 2009
An accusation against Bishop Magee himself was dismissed; another 18 priests were named using pseudonyms

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_abu ... _July_2011

Irish Taoseach's reaction to the report (a Catholic, not a nasty atheist).



Bill O'Donohue was actually on Irish radio a couple of years ago spouting similar apologetic nonsense as Seth and got blasted for it by listeners. Even the YouTube comments on the radio show are awash with people berating him. That type of stuff may wash in some circles in America but not over here.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Maybe he should, but he doesn't.

[Animavore]

Maybe he should, but he doesn't.

Meh. So be it. I'm not getting dragged down the path others have of letting him troll me. His words damage himself. Although I found the way it was phrased distasteful one comment on YouTube said something like, "Bill may consider himself Irish but to us he's just another fat, self-opionated American."
Seth falls into this category though I wouldn't phrase it that way, he's just a foreigner with no sense of perspective on the situation and has no intention of doing so. He can be disregarded on that alone.

[Seth]

And I see Seth is still trying to say, Catholic church = Every Catholic on the planet. Maybe that's how the term is used in America (could someone clarify that?) but when we in Ireland say "The Catholic church" or even just "the Church" we mean the organisation. So when I say I hate the Catholic church I mean the organisation, as it stands, at least until it sorts itself out. Our own governement is even considerng seperation of church and state so fed up with them it is. It makes no sense to say that when I say I hate the Catholic church I mean everyone who is a Catholc - that would mean having to hate my own family and friends - some of whom are priests. Or to suggest that I'm trying to malign them, they all agree with me! I mentioned before that I believe this ultra-defense of the Catholic church is an American phenomenon probably based on the fact that Ameica is so multi-denomiational that damage control needs to be effected to keep Catholics from just simply leaving and going to another church (which many are doing from what I hear). An option not readily availible in Ireland. The biggest critics of the church in Ireland are all Catholic. You don't see Irish atheists making the news or the radio shows with their opinions against the church. And even the documentary which really brought the extent of the abuse in the church to light was by a Catholic named Mary Rafferty. And we all remember the Irish Taoseach's damning indictment against them last year for the continuing cover-ups and interference with inquiry, another staunch Catholic.

By Seth's logic when I say "I hate McDonalds" I mean the company, its employees and its patrons. Which makes no sense what-so-ever. So Seth, I'd appreciate you quit with the lies.

No lies from me. You see, the Catholic church is not the Catholic priesthood or its hierarchy, it's the people who make up the church. Without them there is no church. The priesthood and its hierarchy are merely the administrative arm of the church. So if you say "pedophile priests" in relation to priests who actually are pedophiles or you say "the Catholic priesthood" or otherwise specify whom you are referring to and your accusations are legitimate and targeted at those actually responsible for abuse, I have no quibble or objection. But that's not what I see, ever. I see broad-brush, non-specific condemnations of everyone associated with the church, which is unfair, unreasonable, despicable, disgusting, bigoted, prejudiced, irrational and ethically corrupt.

And I'll point out that sort of disgusting behavior whenever I see it, whether you like it or not.