Global Climate Change Science News

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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Brian Peacock » Mon May 15, 2023 2:29 pm

Yes. Tropical storm intensity is up, as is longevity, with storm formation directly linked to ocean temperatures, which are rising. Tropical atorm frequency rose in the 30 years to 2013. El Nino etc are the names we give to regional climate patterns or cycles. They don't cause weather - they are weather.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by macdoc » Mon May 15, 2023 6:30 pm

Um no - El Nino and La Nina, ENSO are ocean circulation changes that cause weather patterns to shift.

The central Pacific gets hotter in El Nino bringing a different weather pattern to the continents...La Nina cooler ocean temps.
There is an Indian Ocean circulation change as well as a AMOC in the Atlantic.
Collapse of AMOC could be castastophic - this is a good read.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_ ... irculation

These CAUSE weather, they are ocean changes that translate into weather over both the ocean and continents.
Weather is atmospheric phenomena, not oceanic.
A climate cycle is not weather either ....it's climate. :prof:
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by JimC » Sat May 20, 2023 11:00 pm

An interesting way to store renewable energy when plentiful, and release it as needed later.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-21/ ... /102367724
What seems like a simple plan — sending a large weight down a deep hole — could help Australia towards net zero emissions.

Housed in an old mine shaft and suspended by a strong cable, a weight is lowered 500 metres down a long drop and in doing so, turns a turbine that creates electricity.

It is the same technology that drove grandfather clocks in the 1600s, and it uses gravity to create electricity in the same way as a hydro-electric scheme.

"We're trying to do the same thing, but we don't need the water," Green Gravity chief executive Mark Swinnerton told Lindsay McDougall, on ABC Illawarra Drive.

"We have nearly 100,000 legacy mines in Australia from all around and we have all these big holes in the ground, so rather than use water, we use dense objects."

How it works

In practice, the suspended weight might be lifted during the day when renewable solar energy is plentiful, then lowered at night when power is needed.

Mr Swinnerton said most old mine shafts were still connected to the grid, which meant the system could help deliver power directly to communities near the shaft.

"Only 3 per cent of our legacy mines have been fully rehabilitated or relinquished," he said.

"As a country, we're not using it and it's a great opportunity to reuse infrastructure."
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Brian Peacock » Sun May 21, 2023 7:55 am

That's actually quite cool. I've seen gravity generators used for portable lighting before. They always make me worry about the laws of thermodynamics because you have to raise the weight before dropping it!
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Brian Peacock » Sun May 21, 2023 8:26 am


macdoc wrote:Um no - El Nino and La Nina, ENSO are ocean circulation changes that cause weather patterns to shift.

The central Pacific gets hotter in El Nino bringing a different weather pattern to the continents...La Nina cooler ocean temps.
There is an Indian Ocean circulation change as well as a AMOC in the Atlantic.
Collapse of AMOC could be castastophic - this is a good read.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_ ... irculation

These CAUSE weather, they are ocean changes that translate into weather over both the ocean and continents.
Weather is atmospheric phenomena, not oceanic.
A climate cycle is not weather either ....it's climate. :prof:
Patronising blah blah blah. If you could've be bothered to read my comments in good faith you'd have acknowledged the feedback mechanisms at play and avoided confusing climate for weather. As Heinlein noted, Climate is what there is, Weather is what you get! The former term is used when talking about complex adaptive systems as a whole, the latter when taking about their local features - you can't have the second without the first of course, but there isn't a linear causal relationship between the two as the second feeds back into the first as part of a cyclical pattern. The nominal distinction between weather and climate is rather arbitrary, and our general cultural misappropriation about them being discrete or separate things is unhelpful when considering both the causes and consequences of global heating and climate change, and the steps we need to take to mitigate and and adapt to them.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by macdoc » Sun May 21, 2023 9:18 am

You really need to read up more
The nominal distinction between weather and climate is rather arbitrary,
utterly wrong
Climate is measured in 30 year segments.
What Climate Means. In short, climate is the description of the long-term pattern of weather in a particular area. Some scientists define climate as the average weather for a particular region and time period, usually taken over 30-years. It's really an average pattern of weather for a particular region.
Weather is not
the state of the atmosphere at a particular place and time as regards heat, cloudiness, dryness, sunshine, wind, rain, etc.
It's not in the least arbitrary.
ENSO et al are oceanic cycles and while they impact weather and to a lesser degree climate - they are not atmospheric.

You are trying to sound knowledgeable and you are evidently not.
Heinlein was not a climate scientist, he was an entertaining libertarian writer.
Try this for your knowledge base instead
https://www.realclimate.org/index.php/a ... tart-here/
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Brian Peacock » Sun May 21, 2023 8:49 pm

macdoc wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 9:18 am
You really need to read up more
The nominal distinction between weather and climate is rather arbitrary,
utterly wrong
Climate is measured in 30 year segments.
What Climate Means. In short, climate is the description of the long-term pattern of weather in a particular area. Some scientists define climate as the average weather for a particular region and time period, usually taken over 30-years. It's really an average pattern of weather for a particular region.
Weather is not
the state of the atmosphere at a particular place and time as regards heat, cloudiness, dryness, sunshine, wind, rain, etc.
It's not in the least arbitrary.
ENSO et al are oceanic cycles and while they impact weather and to a lesser degree climate - they are not atmospheric.

You are trying to sound knowledgeable and you are evidently not.
Heinlein was not a climate scientist, he was an entertaining libertarian writer.
Try this for your knowledge base instead
https://www.realclimate.org/index.php/a ... tart-here/
Hmm, more patronising wibble. You miss the metaphor of Heinlein's words, which can be forgiven, but you explicitly chose to not acknowledge the adpative nature of the system or the feedbacks at play - the context, as it were. The dictionary definitions are a useful clarification but this is not what I was talking about, so providing them doesn't address the point either. And besides, the definition of 'climate' is wrong with regard to the 30-year timescale and in the term referring only to a 'particular region'. If we're trying to find common definitional ground then I think this explanation aimed at 12-14 year-olds is more useful...
Climate vs Weather

The terms 'climate' and 'weather' are words we use to describe two aspects of the same thing: the state of the atmosphere. However, it is important not to confuse these two descriptions. Let us separate their definitions in order to understand how they are used and their relationship.

Weather: is the state of the atmosphere in a specific location, or region, over a short period of time - from a few hours to a few days. Eg. A tornado in Arizona, a rainstorm in Lagos.
Climate: is the state of the atmosphere in a region, or globally, over a long period of time - from decades, to hundreds or even thousands of years.

https://1.5max.org/resources/keyclimate ... ather.html
Still, I was actually talking about El Niño and La Niña etc being features of certain kinds of complex adaptive systems, features which reflect endogenously generated dynamics as a result of processes of self-organisation and evolution. This is to say that you cannot easily separate the consequences of El Niño and La Niña from their causes, or simply place them within a linear hierarchy (A -> B), or consider them to operate at a singular scale, because they reflect the adaptability of the wider systems in which they operate as well as the dynamics of the systems in operation themselves. So when I said...
El Nino etc are the names we give to regional climate patterns or cycles. They don't cause weather - they are weather.
... I was entirely correct - you just failed to understand my meaning. Hopefully I've offered enough above for you to begin to amend your misconceptions. There's lot's of information on adaptive cycles and complex adaptive systems available on the internet - though I'd recommend staying clear of the business-oriented, social system dynamics, and the overly political stuff, and instead focus on the physical and ecological sciences, at least to start with.

As I said earlier, if you could start reading my comments in good faith, rather that presuming that I'm always in need of your correctives, I think we could actually begin to have interesting, fruitful, and informative conversations here.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by macdoc » Tue May 23, 2023 5:58 am

Pity the tropical reefs
Buckle up because El Niño is almost here, and it’s going to get hot / Prepare for temperatures reaching ‘uncharted territory,’ the World Meteorological Organization warns.
By Justine Calma, a science reporter covering the environment, climate, and energy with a decade of experience. She is also the host of the Hell or High Water podcast.

The next five years are almost guaranteed to be sweltering, the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) warned today. Climate change has already raised baseline temperatures for the planet. Now, a weather pattern known as El Niño is going to make things even hotter when it develops later this year.
Image
That one-two punch from El Niño and climate change is expected to “push global temperatures into uncharted territory,” WMO Secretary-General Petteri Taalas said in a press release today. “This will have far-reaching repercussions for health, food security, water management and the environment. We need to be prepared.”
https://www.theverge.com/2023/5/17/2372 ... ganization
and
https://cnewsliveenglish.com/news/23882 ... warming-rb
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by pErvinalia » Tue May 23, 2023 6:06 am

Great, more giant bushfires for us here in Australia. At least I won't get flooded out for the next few years.
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by macdoc » Tue May 23, 2023 6:32 am

yup
Climate models warn of possible ‘super El Niño’ before end of year

Climate models around the globe continue to warn of a potential El Niño developing later this year – a pattern of ocean warming in the Pacific that can increase the risk of catastrophic weather events around the globe.

Some models are raising the possibility later this year of an extreme, or “super El Niño”, that is marked by very high temperatures in a central region of the Pacific around the equator.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... nd-of-year
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue May 23, 2023 12:24 pm

pErvinalia wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 6:06 am
Great, more giant bushfires for us here in Australia. At least I won't get flooded out for the next few years.
Do you get much in the way of tropical storms up your way? I seem to remember you getting cut off by a rising river in the last few years - or am I thinking of somewhere/one else?
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by pErvinalia » Tue May 23, 2023 10:19 pm

Yeah I got flooded two years ago. But with el nino we get less rainfall, so should be immune to floods for a while.
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu May 25, 2023 12:59 am

Bio and synthetic aviation fuels not looking too healthy...
Implications of preferential access to land and clean energy for Sustainable Aviation Fuels

Highlights
  • 12 aviation decarbonisation roadmaps rely on Sustainable Aviation Fuels (SAF).
  • Bio-SAF would consume 30 % of sustainably available biomass in 2050.
  • SAF production is energy intensive with a risk of clean energy displacement.
  • All SAF emits CO2 emissions and re-sequestration can take decades.
  • Permanent removals of CO2 are potentially inhibited by SAF.
Aviation is highly dependent on liquid fossil fuel, and the production of 'sustainable aviation fuels' (SAF) is being proposed as a solution to removing the fossil carbon component, especially for long-haul flights. An analysis of 12 aviation roadmaps for net zero 2050 reveals heavy reliance on biogenic SAF in the medium-term and synthetic e-kerosene in the longer term. Realising these roadmaps could require 9 % of global renewable electricity and 30 % of sustainably available biomass in 2050, with significant energy 'losses'. The continued use of hydrocarbon fuel in the roadmaps generates 1.35 GtCO2 in 2050, of which 30 % are still from fossil fuel. The net carbon savings from the 70 % depend on the direct and indirect life cycle emissions of producing SAF. Additional effects that are omitted in most roadmaps relate to decadal time lags in re-sequestering biocarbon in the case of forest biomass and the impact of non-CO2 emissions. Both require greater scrutiny in fully understanding the climate impact of SAF substitution. The scaling up of SAF to not only maintain but grow global aviation is problematic as it competes for land needed for nature-based carbon removal, clean energy that could more effectively decarbonise other sectors, and captured CO2 to be stored permanently. As such, SAF production undermines global goals of limiting warming to 1.5 °C; a conflict that is neither recognised in the roadmaps nor in the public debate.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 9723025044
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by JimC » Thu May 25, 2023 1:22 am

It's interesting that France has banned short-haul internal flights where fast train connections are available as an alternative...
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Svartalf » Thu May 25, 2023 1:28 am

JimC wrote:
Thu May 25, 2023 1:22 am
It's interesting that France has banned short-haul internal flights where fast train connections are available as an alternative...
Given the hugely variable, unfair and opaque pricing practices of our train system, I'd not be surprised if private plane chartering became a common practice... I think they banned only commercial, regular flights.
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