Global Climate Change Science News

[pErvinalia]

Geothermal as a sustainable energy source is concerned primarily with electricity generation, not heating. Using it for heating is great, but that's not going to address global warming in any significant sense.

[Alan B]

The 3.26 Gigawatts I mentioned is the power output of the proposed Hinkley Point C nuclear reactor.

According the licensing authorities (2016 figures) there are about 35 million cars and small vans in the UK.
If, in the future, say 20 or 30 years time, all I.C. engine vehicles are banned in the UK (small cars & vans) to reduce noxious gas and particle emissions (and Greenhouse gasses), how much electrical power would need to be generated just to service these vehicles (assume each small vehicle uses a 30kW/h battery (e.g. Nissan LEAF) and that they are plugged in overnight for charging)?

[Scot Dutchy]

Geothermal as a sustainable energy source is concerned primarily with electricity generation, not heating. Using it for heating is great, but that's not going to address global warming in any significant sense.

Nope sorry. That is not the approach here. There will not be any power stations in the classical sense. Wind farms will produce a substantial amount of electricity and solar panels will supply households. They becoming more efficient as are batteries. There are already plenty of districts functioning this way. A start has been made to convert older districts to non gas that is where replacing central heating boilers with heat pumps comes in. Eventually by 2030 all areas will have been converted. Plenty of apartments are already being heated with waste water from the rubbish incinerators. We dont have land fills. Villages in Westland (a triangle from the Hague, Rotterdam to Hoek van Holland) are being heated by waste energy from glass houses.

[pErvinalia]

Geothermal as a sustainable energy source is concerned primarily with electricity generation, not heating. Using it for heating is great, but that's not going to address global warming in any significant sense.

Nope sorry. That is not the approach here.

It doesn't matter whether it is the approach there. Geothermal is primarily being investigated for large scale electricity production. Using it for heating is a good idea, but that's nothing revolutionary. Heat pumps have been around for a long time.

[Scot Dutchy]

Geothermal as a sustainable energy source is concerned primarily with electricity generation, not heating. Using it for heating is great, but that's not going to address global warming in any significant sense.

Nope sorry. That is not the approach here.

It doesn't matter whether it is the approach there. Geothermal is primarily being investigated for large scale electricity production. Using it for heating is a good idea, but that's nothing revolutionary. Heat pumps have been around for a long time.

Geothermal will never be used here for large electricity production.

[mistermack]

Heat pumps are of limited use.
It doesn't really use geothermal, in the sense of the inner heat of the planet. It just uses solar energy stored in the top few metres of the surface.

Basically, it provides a source of heat that is slightly less than half the price of straightforward electrical heating. But the cost of the infrastructure gets added on top.
The infrastructure is expensive for the most efficient type, which uses lower temperature under floor heating.

The economics is better too, if there is cheap rate off-peak electricity available on the grid.

It's use is growing, but it's got it's downside. It's at it's best supplying background heat 24/7, rather than on/off rapid response heat.

[pErvinalia]

Heat pumps are of limited use.
It doesn't really use geothermal, in the sense of the inner heat of the planet. It just uses solar energy stored in the top few metres of the surface.

Well that's a good point too, something I somehow forgot to notice.

[Scot Dutchy]

Heat pumps are of limited use.
It doesn't really use geothermal, in the sense of the inner heat of the planet. It just uses solar energy stored in the top few metres of the surface.

Basically, it provides a source of heat that is slightly less than half the price of straightforward electrical heating. But the cost of the infrastructure gets added on top.
The infrastructure is expensive for the most efficient type, which uses lower temperature under floor heating.

The economics is better too, if there is cheap rate off-peak electricity available on the grid.

It's use is growing, but it's got it's downside. It's at it's best supplying background heat 24/7, rather than on/off rapid response heat.

There are plenty of heat pumps in use. We have whole districts being built using heat pumps as energy source of heating. Geothermal heating is being used in commercial estates as in my old office. Solar panels are producing more than enough electricity that it is being fed into the network. What is needed is better storage of electricity.

[mistermack]

To some extent, heat pumps DO store electrical energy, where they use offpeak to heat the fabric of buildings underfloor at night. It's ideal for new buildings that are constantly in use. But not great for the on/off requirements of some homes.

Storage of electrical energy is the holy grail that they are all looking for. Economic storage, that is.There are all sorts that work well. They just cost too much at the moment, and need subsidies to compete.

If you have heat pumps, combined with solar power, none of it will run at night. Heat pumps combined with wind turbines. Won't run on still days. It needs good old gas or coal or nuclear to keep it running.

The question then is, why have all that infrastructure, you can do the same heating with gas directly for less.

Heat pumps and underfloor do have an added benefit in hot countries though. You can use the same equipment in in hot weather for cheaper air conditioning.

[Scot Dutchy]

To some extent, heat pumps DO store electrical energy, where they use offpeak to heat the fabric of buildings underfloor at night. It's ideal for new buildings that are constantly in use. But not great for the on/off requirements of some homes.

Storage of electrical energy is the holy grail that they are all looking for. Economic storage, that is.There are all sorts that work well. They just cost too much at the moment, and need subsidies to compete.

If you have heat pumps, combined with solar power, none of it will run at night. Heat pumps combined with wind turbines. Won't run on still days. It needs good old gas or coal or nuclear to keep it running.

The question then is, why have all that infrastructure, you can do the same heating with gas directly for less.

Heat pumps and underfloor do have an added benefit in hot countries though. You can use the same equipment in in hot weather for cheaper air conditioning.

That is the point of the whole exercise; no gas, no CO2 and no big central power plants. Not just hot countries even here it is a benefit.

[Tero]

It will be interesting how....if?...American homes will be heated in the future. These new type of sources are best done in groups of 4 or more homes, rows of town homes being the best to heat in common. If you set the hearing apparatus in the middle, a group of 6-8 single homes could go around in a circle. Then the Rpublicans owning them could still mow individual yards with electric....the Democrats will ban gas mowers...lawn mowers or solar powered aitomatic mowing units.

Others will move to Aruzona to avoid heating much and just quit grass in the yard and put native plants.

[Alan B]

Heat pumps seem to be OK for a domestic energy source when considered for a small scale installation. If one considers a large scale enterprise, say, a small city, would there not be localised cooling at the extraction depths thereby limiting the amount of energy available? I suppose it all depends on the thermal conductivity of the geological medium and the primary heat source temperature.
If, in the future, large scale heat pump installations are the norm, would there not be a possibility of continued temperature change at the extraction depths introducing stress leading to geological movement?

[Alan B]

I know this is OT, but I still prefer gas to cook with...

[Tero]

Heat pumps seem to be OK for a domestic energy source when considered for a small scale installation. If one considers a large scale enterprise, say, a small city, would there not be localised cooling at the extraction depths thereby limiting the amount of energy available? I suppose it all depends on the thermal conductivity of the geological medium and the primary heat source temperature.
If, in the future, large scale heat pump installations are the norm, would there not be a possibility of continued temperature change at the extraction depths introducing stress leading to geological movement?

Unlikely. There is a shitload of heat down there, and also some radioactive processes. More likely the tiny loss of heat in big city areas would lead to a small temperature change over very limited land area.

[Scot Dutchy]

Here the thought is micro-size. Heat pumps are not geothermal. They have no effect on the environment. Just minor air temperature difference is enough. Geothermal does not have to go that deep either. Remember in summer time heat is put back into the ground.

I know I do as well but it is the future and induction cooking is fast, responsive and safe.