Global Climate Change Science News

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Animavore
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Animavore » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:35 pm

You can't convince people who don't want to be convinced.

The time for trying to debate them is past. Even the fossil industry, who disseminated the obsfucation and lies, through the front of right-wing think tanks, that Denialists lap up have given up trying to deny the hard truth of reality. It's for those of us who accept the situation and take responsibility to move past without them and thanklessly try create a better future. No one says the road will be easy, but let's not give into the negativity of naysayers who just want to scoff wish for failure.
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Rum » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:45 pm

Animavore wrote:You can't convince people who don't want to be convinced.

The time for trying to debate them is past. Even the fossil industry, who disseminated the obsfucation and lies, through the front of right-wing think tanks, that Denialists lap up have given up trying to deny the hard truth of reality. It's for those of us who accept the situation and take responsibility to move past without them and thanklessly try create a better future. No one says the road will be easy, but let's not give into the negativity of naysayers who just want to scoff wish for failure.
So on a piratical level (serious question here) what do you do to address the issues?

We do our 'bit' though I fear it is not enough. We have an energy efficient house (and the one we are having built will be super energy efficient), solar panels, a policy about where our food comes from - and so on. I also make a nuisance of myself by nagging local politicians about local developments and energy conservation. None of it feels significant though.

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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Animavore » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:23 pm

Well first of all I use very little energy. Only one thing tends to be on at a time. I'd put on layers rather than use heating. I don't own a car and use public transport. I walk to work. I support the organisation 350.org who campaign for divestment by companies and governments away from fossil. I boycott any company who aren't environmentally friendly. Oppose the US for spitting in the eyes of the rest of the World by leaving the Paris agreement (I think Trump and the Republicans actions which are an attack on the safety and well-being of their own people should be viewed as treason, never mind Russia) and gladly support any tariffs raised against US companies who don't fall within satisfactory environmental standards. Also try to get energy from renewable sources, though I'm currently a lodger and don't know where they get their power. Currently looking for voluntary conservation work. Studying climate science in spare time.
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:09 am

mistermack wrote:Replanting an oak forest? That's a joke.
It doesn't have to be an oak forest. All trees fix carbon.
You emit the CO2 now, and start fixing significant quantities in about forty years time. At a very slow rate.

That's great for the planet. As if it matters.
Well it literally does matter. It literally makes it sustainable.
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Alan B » Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:47 am

pErvinalia wrote:
mistermack wrote:Replanting an oak forest? That's a joke.
It doesn't have to be an oak forest. All trees fix carbon.
Yes. But at different rates and efficiencies:
Forest Research
You emit the CO2 now, and start fixing significant quantities in about forty years time. At a very slow rate.

That's great for the planet. As if it matters.
Well it literally does matter. It literally makes it sustainable.
Sustainable? Yes, but only if the status quo is maintained wrt population at the present level and present energy usage (for the, er, more 'civilised' parts of humanity, that is - sod the rest!). However, it is predicted that the population will increase to about 11 billion in about 50 to 70 years. They would not have very good life if they had to maintain energy usage and generation at present levels.

I found that video depressingly convincing.

If and when the population reaches 11 billion, and the 'have-nots' no longer exist (we all have access to the same minimal standard of living with all that that implies), what then?
Increased land area for living accommodation (CO2 producing construction and power generation) and methane producing food sources (rice and cattle).
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:25 am

Alan B wrote:
pErvinalia wrote:
mistermack wrote:Replanting an oak forest? That's a joke.
It doesn't have to be an oak forest. All trees fix carbon.
Yes. But at different rates and efficiencies:
Forest Research
Sure. But the point is it doesn't have to be the same forest that was there if carbon biomass sustainability is the primary concern.
You emit the CO2 now, and start fixing significant quantities in about forty years time. At a very slow rate.

That's great for the planet. As if it matters.
Well it literally does matter. It literally makes it sustainable.
Sustainable? Yes, but only if the status quo is maintained wrt population at the present level and present energy usage (for the, er, more 'civilised' parts of humanity, that is - sod the rest!).
No, it's literally sustainable (if what you plant will be allowed to capture as much carbon as was released by utilising the forest that was previously there).
However, it is predicted that the population will increase to about 11 billion in about 50 to 70 years. They would not have very good life if they had to maintain energy usage and generation at present levels.

I found that video depressingly convincing.

If and when the population reaches 11 billion, and the 'have-nots' no longer exist (we all have access to the same minimal standard of living with all that that implies), what then?
Increased land area for living accommodation (CO2 producing construction and power generation) and methane producing food sources (rice and cattle).
This is a separate issue, but I of course agree with this. It's not actually gross population numbers that are the most important thing. It's level of consumption (and by extension gross consumption across the planet) that is the big problem that faces the planet. 11 billion people living like those in Nigeria wouldn't be a problem (or at the very least not the same level of problem) compared to 11 billion living by western standards.
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by mistermack » Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:05 pm

This is one reason why I'm against substantial immigration.

Let the countries that produce the extra four billion cater for the extra four billion. Why should the UK be squeezing more and more people into a little island, just to cater for people it didn't produce?

On top of incoming people, our birth rate has jumped disappointingly, because of the recent immigration, and the royal family.
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Tero » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:40 pm

Note: Not meant for Ratz deniers.
Someone had collected these.
DEBUNKING DENIERS

John Broder, 7/09, Behind the Furor Over a Climate Change Skeptic. New York Times. https://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/25/scie ... d=all&_r=0

Jean-Daniel Collomb, 9/2014. The Ideology of Climate Change Denial in the United States. European Journal of American Studies. http://journals.openedition.org/ejas/10305

Coral Davenport and Eric Lipton, June 2017. How G.O.P. Leaders Came to View Climate Change as Fake Science. New York Times. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/03/us/p ... pe=article

Chris Mooney, May 27, 2015. This is climate skeptics’ latest argument about melting polar ice — and why it’s wrong. Washington Post. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ene ... 1dbe23a98e

Dana Nuccitelli, Tue 6 May 2014 The top ten global warming 'skeptic' arguments answered. https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... s-debunked

John Rennie, 11/30, 2009. 7 Answers to Climate Contrarian Nonsense. Scientific American https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... -nonsense/
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by cronus » Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:08 pm

The only way out of the mess is technical innovation, and treaties that are based on reality. That also means keeping the likes of Trump or countless other idiots elsewhere well away from the levers of power. Global revolt is necessary, before changes that are long lasting multi-generational can be guaranteed. Business as usual is off the table. The educated global science elites don't do full on politics usually...now it is a global survival imperative, they do.
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Sean Hayden » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:53 pm

I'm trying to find a good place to move to. Houston's going to be a nightmare in 30 years.
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Woodbutcher » Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:13 pm

Sean Hayden wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:53 pm
I'm trying to find a good place to move to. Houston's going to be a nightmare in 30 years.
C'mon up here. As the climate warms, our summers will be nearly snow free, and Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba will be able to grow bumper crops. The States will be coastally challenged and the wheat growing regions will turn into hot deserts. :biggrin:
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Tero » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:51 am

Birch trees. You will get a lot of birch trees. Sharpen your saw, Woody. It’s harder wood.
http://karireport.blogspot.com/ (:_funny_:)
http://esapolitics.blogspot.com/
Guns? Guns: https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4714/264 ... 9c76_z.jpg
This is how American politics goes
1 Republicans cut tax, let everything run down to barely working...8 years
2 Democrats fix public spending to normal...8 years
Rinse, repeat.

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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Rum » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:27 am

There's a great Youtube channel called 'Fully Charged', which is basically about all things alternative power generation. Recommended as entertainment as well as interest. They did a short series about Orkney from where they now export electricity to mainland UK. Interesting.


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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:59 am

After Brexit and Scottish independence England will have to pay dearly for this power.
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Alan B » Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:48 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:59 am
After Brexit and Scottish independence England will have to pay dearly for this power.
And NI will become part of Eire.
We can no longer be a 'United Kingdom' or 'Great Britain'. We'll have to change our name...


Poundland, perhaps? (But I think that has been taken).
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