Global Climate Change Science News

Post Reply
User avatar
pErvinalia
On the good stuff
Posts: 59295
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:00 pm

He's snowflaked off.
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

User avatar
mistermack
Posts: 15093
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:57 am
About me: Never rong.
Contact:

Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by mistermack » Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:52 pm

pErvinalia wrote:Well it actually is for battery and pumped hydro, and presumably for solar thermal using molten salt. Pumped hydro isn't going to work everywhere, as you need a couple of hundred vertical metres of terrain.
None of those things are economic, that's the problem. They work but they cost a lot.

You end up with very expensive electricity, compared to natural gas etc.
It's frustrating, but it's true.

Pumped Hydro has loss of water as well as loss of energy to contend with in hot dry areas.

Invent an ECONOMIC form of energy storage, and you'll be a billionaire overnight. Which means that there are some very big brains working on it every day, but they haven't come up with it yet.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

User avatar
Animavore
Nasty Hombre
Posts: 39234
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:26 am
Location: Ire Land.
Contact:

Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Animavore » Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:08 pm

Denialists officially lose the argument.
Fossil fuels are the problem, say fossil fuel companies being sued
By Nathanael Johnson on Mar 21, 2018

Big Oil and the cities suing them in federal court agreed on at least one thing on Wednesday: Human-made climate change is real.

In the country’s first court hearing on the science behind climate change, a lawyer for Chevron, Theodore Boutrous Jr., said the oil company accepts the scientific consensus. He quoted chapter and verse from the reports of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the thousands of scientists assembled by the United Nations to figure out exactly what’s going on. “From Chevron’s perspective, there is no debate about the science of climate change,” Boutrous said.

Oil companies have recently started saying they’re on the side of science, but they’ve never said it so clearly in court.
https://grist.org/article/fossil-fuels- ... eing-sued/

Game. Set. Match.
Libertarianism: The belief that out of all the terrible things governments can do, helping people is the absolute worst.

User avatar
mistermack
Posts: 15093
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:57 am
About me: Never rong.
Contact:

Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by mistermack » Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:29 pm

A lawyer?

That's convincing.

Big oil are only interested in the bottom line. They are not going to distract the court case with a fundamental climate debate, when people have been indoctrinated for the last 25 years.

Anyway, it's hypocritical for anyone to sue the oil companies. We want to use oil, but want to blame those who make it?
It's easy. If you disagree with the oil companies, don't drive, or fly, or use plastic, or buy food.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

User avatar
Animavore
Nasty Hombre
Posts: 39234
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:26 am
Location: Ire Land.
Contact:

Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Animavore » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:08 pm

Nothing to do with lawyers. It's to do with the fact that the fossil companies now know that challenging the science in court is going to see them humiliated, just like Intelligent Design before it. The Peabody group learnt this the hard way when their team of Denialists were destroyed by real scientists.

I now declare this thread over.

Brian, please lock it.

:read:
Libertarianism: The belief that out of all the terrible things governments can do, helping people is the absolute worst.

User avatar
pErvinalia
On the good stuff
Posts: 59295
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by pErvinalia » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:09 pm

mistermack wrote:
pErvinalia wrote:Well it actually is for battery and pumped hydro, and presumably for solar thermal using molten salt. Pumped hydro isn't going to work everywhere, as you need a couple of hundred vertical metres of terrain.
None of those things are economic, that's the problem. They work but they cost a lot.

You end up with very expensive electricity, compared to natural gas etc.
It's frustrating, but it's true.

Pumped Hydro has loss of water as well as loss of energy to contend with in hot dry areas.

Invent an ECONOMIC form of energy storage, and you'll be a billionaire overnight. Which means that there are some very big brains working on it every day, but they haven't come up with it yet.
It's not that simplistic. It's absolutely economic if you factor in the pollution externalities of fossil fuels (which you of course don't, and never will). And even without those it's getting close now. There's other factors to consider as well, and that's the speed and frequency smoothness (I think that's the right word) of the supply. Battery and pumped hydro can be switched on instantly. Not so with coal. And the frequency supply from batteries can be rigorously controlled to provide perfect power without spikes and whatnot.

It's over for fossil fuels in the first world. The big fossil companies know this and they won't invest in coal in the first world any more. It's too uneconomical and too high risk moving into the future. LNG is of course still economical, and new fields and methods of extraction are coming online. But it will be surpassed by renewables in the near enough future. Only old dinosaurs and/or conspiracy theorists resist what's written on the wall. :coffee:
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

User avatar
mistermack
Posts: 15093
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:57 am
About me: Never rong.
Contact:

Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by mistermack » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:47 pm

There is potential for energy storage. But there always has been. And it hasn't happened as yet.

Until it happens, it's just potential. Sometimes, those things never happen. Sometimes they do.

People in the know usually show it by their spending. The money being spent on energy storage technology at the moment is pretty insignificant in comparison to the size of the market. That tells what the insiders really think of the prospects.

I would certainly like to see renewables become competitive with fossil fuels. It would cut my own fuel costs, apart from any long-term benefits.
Subsidising renewables hasn't brought about the economies of scale that were promised though.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

User avatar
pErvinalia
On the good stuff
Posts: 59295
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by pErvinalia » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:25 pm

The state of South Australia here just installed the world's biggest battery storage, and it made it through last summer without a hitch. Summer is always the problem here, due to aircon usage, and storms bringing power lines down. The state of Victoria is going to follow suit. Battery storage is happening already. The pace of adoption will only speed up now.
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

User avatar
Animavore
Nasty Hombre
Posts: 39234
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:26 am
Location: Ire Land.
Contact:

Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Animavore » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:28 pm

If only renewables were subsidised to the extent the fossil industry is.

Maybe we should divest.
Libertarianism: The belief that out of all the terrible things governments can do, helping people is the absolute worst.

User avatar
mistermack
Posts: 15093
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:57 am
About me: Never rong.
Contact:

Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by mistermack » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:47 pm

pErvinalia wrote:The state of South Australia here just installed the world's biggest battery storage, and it made it through last summer without a hitch. Summer is always the problem here, due to aircon usage, and storms bringing power lines down. The state of Victoria is going to follow suit. Battery storage is happening already. The pace of adoption will only speed up now.
I'm not surprised it works without a hitch. Any decent battery works without a hitch. Especially when new. That's not the point.
It's the economics that count.

Australians are being forced to pay far too much for their power. Just to satisfy a flawed hypothesis.
I've seen plenty of criticism of Oz energy policy by locals.

But it's your money.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

User avatar
pErvinalia
On the good stuff
Posts: 59295
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by pErvinalia » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:44 am

Energy prices haven't gone up because of renewables. That's a rightwing piece of political rhetoric not backed up by any evidence. And renewables are more reliable (in terms of mechanics). Old coal-fired power stations break down in part (and sometimes whole) regularly. And as I said, no investors, let alone energy companies, want to build new coal fired plants. Gas is the obvious fall back until we get to widespread and large scale renewable energy storage, but ironically it's political energy policy here, not economics, that sees gas prices (and therefore electricity) prices soaring. Most of our huge gas deposit extractions are heading overseas due to contractual commitments made to Chinese and other investors of the new gas plants being commissioned. That means that there's not enough gas in the domestic market to meet demand. Hence rising prices of gas here.
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

User avatar
Alan B
Posts: 976
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:53 pm
Location: Birmingham, UK.
Contact:

Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Alan B » Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:14 pm

Energy storage is only useful to maintain supply during downtimes. If energy cannot be produced, storage becomes irrelevant.

I just watched a program called 'Dispatches' on UK TV about the true cost of Green Energy. Whole hardwood forests in America are being cut down to make wood pellets to fuel the Drax power station in the UK (the major user from this source). It is claimed that this fuel is 'sustainable' since it produces CO2 that is 'taken up' by the remaining trees. Some of the trees 'harvested' were 50 to 100 tears old. It was also pointed out in the program that coal produced about 8% less CO2 than wood burning. Perhaps they believe that somehow the CO2 from coal doesn't get 'taken up' by trees...

'Sustainable' wood burning is a joke since it will take 10 to 15 years (or more) for the trees to be replaced and to begin 'taking up' the CO2 produced by Drax. Hardly a 'replacement' situation.
By that time there might be another billion more humans on the planet...
Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power - Eric Hoffer.
I have NO BELIEF in the existence of a God or gods. I do not have to offer proof nor do I have to determine absence of proof because I do not ASSERT that a God does or does not or gods do or do not exist.

User avatar
pErvinalia
On the good stuff
Posts: 59295
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by pErvinalia » Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:35 pm

As long as they replant those forests then it will be sustainable. Although, if there will be an imbalance in the carbon accounting in the short term.
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

User avatar
mistermack
Posts: 15093
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:57 am
About me: Never rong.
Contact:

Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by mistermack » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:20 pm

Replanting an oak forest? That's a joke.

You emit the CO2 now, and start fixing significant quantities in about forty years time. At a very slow rate.

That's great for the planet. As if it matters.

Actually, if the climate would hurry up and warm, the northern pine forests would grow a bit bigger and faster, and start fixing millions of extra tons of carbon per year, which we could burn in the Drax wood pellet power station.

It's warming win win.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

User avatar
Rum
Absent Minded Processor
Posts: 37285
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:25 pm
Location: South of the border..though not down Mexico way..
Contact:

Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Rum » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:29 pm

Climate cunts are hard to convince.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests