Plastics and similar materials

User avatar
Tero
Just saying
Posts: 29493
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:50 pm
About me: Something something birds
Location: USA
Contact:

Plastics and similar materials

Post by Tero » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:10 pm

I've found very little material on this for free. I'd have to go to the university library. Most likely the books are not even there. Would need interlibrary loan.

This sort of books:
https://www.amazon.com/Low-Environmenta ... oks&sr=1-1

One material that we use widely is essentially the same as cellulose when it breaks down:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellophane
http://karireport.blogspot.com/ (:_funny_:)
http://esapolitics.blogspot.com/
Dominus vo-bisque'em Et cum spear a tu-tu, oh!

User avatar
JimC
The sentimental bloke
Posts: 62645
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Plastics and similar materials

Post by JimC » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:25 pm

Some thermoplastics, if uncontaminated, can be used as perfect feedstock for a new generation of bottles etc. Other plastics are best chopped up, combined with other materials and a resin matrix, and used to make things like park benches, or in road aggregate. The two other options are:
1. Conversion to hydrocarbons such as diesel or petrol: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-21/ ... el/6484004
2. Clean incineration to generate electricity
Reducing the total amount of plastic we produce, and stopping littering are clearly important options as well...
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!

User avatar
Tero
Just saying
Posts: 29493
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:50 pm
About me: Something something birds
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Plastics and similar materials

Post by Tero » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:41 pm

Yeah, the problem with current plastics is poor recovery.

Cellophane as a layer would strengthen paper, for instance. A substitute for plastic grocery bags and even trash bags. Compostable. No microplastics.
http://karireport.blogspot.com/ (:_funny_:)
http://esapolitics.blogspot.com/
Dominus vo-bisque'em Et cum spear a tu-tu, oh!

User avatar
JimC
The sentimental bloke
Posts: 62645
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Plastics and similar materials

Post by JimC » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:22 pm

Sounds like a plan... :tup:
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!

User avatar
Cunt
Lumpy Vagina Bloodfart
Posts: 8270
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:10 am
Contact:

Re: Plastics and similar materials

Post by Cunt » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:40 pm

I wish people wouldn't 'greenwash' this. Plastics, no matter how carefully you use them, are a fucking blight. Burning them as fuel may be ok, but a 'clean' burn? I have my doubts.

My take is that we would be a LOT better off, if people didn't think plastic could be recycled. LOADS of people think it's endless, when really the outlook is a LOT bleaker.

Running 'gels' usually come in a plastic, single-serving container. Disposable, of course.

To resist that, I simply mix my own, and sip it out of a bottle. Ok, that's plastic too (but I re-use!)

I kind of wish I could find an organic, biodegradeable container for them, that I wouldn't feel bad about tossing on the ground. I've played with rice paper, to no avail.
Shit, Piss, Cock, Cunt, Motherfucker, Cocksucker and Tits.
-various artists


Hermit aka Seraph wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:25 pm
placed himself within a swinging arm's distance from said antifas

User avatar
JimC
The sentimental bloke
Posts: 62645
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Plastics and similar materials

Post by JimC » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:59 pm

As I said, reducing our use of disposable plastic options is the best option, but inevitably there will still be quite a bit still building up. Full recycling for this is the best, followed by making products such as park benches, with conversion into fuel after that, but even landfill is better than letting them into rivers, lakes and the ocean.

And clean burn technology is possible, and has been demonstrated, but of course, CO2 is still released, so it remains a (delayed) fossil fuel energy source...
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!

User avatar
Cunt
Lumpy Vagina Bloodfart
Posts: 8270
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:10 am
Contact:

Re: Plastics and similar materials

Post by Cunt » Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:25 am

I would rather think of it the same way as fuel...as a consumable, and limited resource. I'm not against using it, but the way it is wasted pisses me off.

Have you seen 'blister packaging'? It is often used to prevent theft of garbage products...

I would very much like Amazon to make a 'Prime Service', where they deliver the product without packaging, and pick it up if warranty service is needed. If Amazon had to get rid of all the garbage, you better believe there will be efficiencies introduced.

I've thought of leaving all packaging at the stores that sell it to me, but it is never done, so I would feel very weird.
Shit, Piss, Cock, Cunt, Motherfucker, Cocksucker and Tits.
-various artists


Hermit aka Seraph wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:25 pm
placed himself within a swinging arm's distance from said antifas

User avatar
JimC
The sentimental bloke
Posts: 62645
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Plastics and similar materials

Post by JimC » Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:35 am

Yeah, excess packaging is a pain.
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!

User avatar
Tero
Just saying
Posts: 29493
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:50 pm
About me: Something something birds
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Plastics and similar materials

Post by Tero » Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:39 am

A couple more papers on cellophane
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/ma ... cellophane
it does not really lump together with the normal plastics. In fact it is never recycled.

https://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/2017- ... er-plastic
http://karireport.blogspot.com/ (:_funny_:)
http://esapolitics.blogspot.com/
Dominus vo-bisque'em Et cum spear a tu-tu, oh!

User avatar
laklak
Posts: 17690
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:07 pm
About me: My preferred pronoun is "Massah"
Location: Tannhauser Gate
Contact:

Re: Plastics and similar materials

Post by laklak » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:42 am

Shoot it into the sun.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

User avatar
Tero
Just saying
Posts: 29493
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:50 pm
About me: Something something birds
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Plastics and similar materials

Post by Tero » Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:18 am

Disapparing flip flops. But not buried inside a land fill:
https://www.npr.org/2019/07/30/74409994 ... p-our-mess
http://karireport.blogspot.com/ (:_funny_:)
http://esapolitics.blogspot.com/
Dominus vo-bisque'em Et cum spear a tu-tu, oh!

User avatar
rainbow
Posts: 9607
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:10 am
About me: Pre-Modernist
Location: Africa
Contact:

Re: Plastics and similar materials

Post by rainbow » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:50 am

Tero wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:18 am
Disapparing flip flops. But not buried inside a land fill:
https://www.npr.org/2019/07/30/74409994 ... p-our-mess
Landfill is actually the least worse solution. Any plastics going into landfill are actually 'captured', especially the non-biodegradable types.
Biodegradable plastics are broken down into carbon dioxide and methane, which are greenhouse gasses.
Combustion is of course no better than burning oil, and sometime worse because of dioxin formation. OK so they put in scrubbers to remove it, that gets the nasties into solution which is discharged into the sea. Not so good.

Best is to re-use, and wherever possible no packaging at all.
Dig, 'cos I got my own world to live through
And I ain't gonna copy you

Jimi Hendrix

User avatar
Tero
Just saying
Posts: 29493
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:50 pm
About me: Something something birds
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Plastics and similar materials

Post by Tero » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:45 am

Yeah but paper and cardboard. They do not recycle all of that. It goes to the landfill too. So neither biodegradable or paper makes CO2 very fast in a landfill.
http://karireport.blogspot.com/ (:_funny_:)
http://esapolitics.blogspot.com/
Dominus vo-bisque'em Et cum spear a tu-tu, oh!

User avatar
rainbow
Posts: 9607
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:10 am
About me: Pre-Modernist
Location: Africa
Contact:

Re: Plastics and similar materials

Post by rainbow » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:34 pm

Tero wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:45 am
Yeah but paper and cardboard. They do not recycle all of that. It goes to the landfill too. So neither biodegradable or paper makes CO2 very fast in a landfill.
We do recycle paper and cardboard. It can be used for egg trays, fast food holders, transport cartons, even toilet paper and newsprint. With treatment it can be converted into insulation for building, and even turned into textiles.
It is not "they" that are the problem, it is ourselves that can't be arsed to separate our trash so it can be re-used.
Dig, 'cos I got my own world to live through
And I ain't gonna copy you

Jimi Hendrix

User avatar
Cunt
Lumpy Vagina Bloodfart
Posts: 8270
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:10 am
Contact:

Re: Plastics and similar materials

Post by Cunt » Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:11 pm

rainbow wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:50 am
Best is to re-use, and wherever possible no packaging at all.
The 'no packaging' option is best, and I think Amazon can do it for us. Instead of having to wrap your purchase to get it home safely (like a blister package) you simply have the delivery come to you where you are, hand you the item, and take away the packaging.

Since Amazon owns the packaging, they will find efficient materials (or lose cash) and as to handling/disposal, if they have to pay for all of it, again, they will improve efficiency.

People up here drive their recyclables around to the blue bins, which are then emptied and buried at the landfill. We used to ship the waste to shithole countries, and claim it was 'recycled', but that option fell apart, and now it's just wasting fuel moving waste around to put in a waste containment area.
Shit, Piss, Cock, Cunt, Motherfucker, Cocksucker and Tits.
-various artists


Hermit aka Seraph wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:25 pm
placed himself within a swinging arm's distance from said antifas

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest