Farts and Climate Change

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Re: Farts and Climate Change

Post by Forty Two » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:08 pm

Seabass wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:53 am
Trigger Warning!!!1! :
Watts up with that?

googles...

Oh no... Ooh boy... :fp:
Watts Up With That? (or WUWT) is a blog[1] promoting climate change denial[2][3][4][5][6] that was created by Anthony Watts in 2006.[2][3]

The blog predominantly discusses climate issues with a focus on anthropogenic climate change, generally accommodating beliefs that are in opposition to the scientific consensus on climate change. Contributors include Christopher Monckton and Fred Singer as guest authors.[7] In November 2009, the blog was one of the first websites to publish emails and documents from the Climatic Research Unit controversy, and a driving force behind its coverage.[7]

In the early months of 2010, it was reported the site might be "the most read climate blog in the world,"[8] and in 2013 Michael E. Mann referred to it as the leading climate change denial blog.[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watts_Up_With_That%3F
Watts rejects the scientific consensus on climate change.[4][5][20] He believes that global warming is occurring, but that it is not as bad as has been reported, and that carbon dioxide plays a much smaller part than the sun in causing climatic change.[21][22][23] Watts has written that variations in solar irradiance, the sun's magnetic field and solar wind are driving changes to the climate,[22] contrary to the scientific consensus that the primary cause of climate change is an increase in greenhouse gasses, including carbon dioxide.[24][25] Climate models have been used to examine the role of the sun in recent warming,[26] and data collected on solar irradiance[27] and ozone depletion, as well as comparisons of temperature readings at different levels of the atmosphere[28][29] have shown that the sun is not a significant factor driving climate change.[30][31]

Watts is a signatory to the Leipzig Declaration[32] as well as the Manhattan Declaration, which calls for the immediate halt to any tax funded attempts to counteract climate change or reduce CO2 emissions, and suggests the consensus among climate scientists is "false".[33] Watts says he advocates for alternative energy sources and for the United States to "disengage from Middle East Oil."[34]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Watts_(blogger)
Monckton advocates for climate change denial,[49][53][54] and has stated that those who warn of the dangers of climate change should be jailed, calling them "bogus".[55]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christoph ... ate_change
According to David Biello and John Pavlus in Scientific American, Singer is best known for his denial of the health risks of passive smoking.[53] He was involved in 1994 as writer and reviewer of a report on the issue by the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution, where he was a senior fellow.[54] The report criticized the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) for their 1993 study about the cancer risks of passive smoking, calling it "junk science". Singer told CBC's The Fifth Estate in 2006 that he stood by the position that the EPA had "cooked the data" to show that second-hand smoke causes lung cancer. CBC said that tobacco money had paid for Singer's research and for his promotion of it, and that it was organized by APCO. Singer told CBC it made no difference where the money came from. "They don't carry a note on a dollar bill saying 'This comes from the tobacco industry,'" he said. "In any case I was not aware of it, and I didn't ask APCO where they get their money. That's not my business."[8] In December 2010 he wrote in American Thinker that he is nonsmoker who finds second-hand smoke an unpleasant irritant that cannot be healthy; he also wrote that his father, a heavy smoker, died of emphysema when relatively young. According to Singer, he serves on the advisory board of an anti-smoking organization, and has never been paid by Philip Morris or the tobacco lobby.[55]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Sing ... hand_smoke
Willard Anthony Watts (Anthony Watts) is a blogger, weathercaster and non-scientist, paid AGW denier who runs the website wattsupwiththat.com. He does not have a university qualification and has no climate credentials other than being a radio weather announcer. His website is parodied and debunked at the website wottsupwiththat.com Watts is on the payroll of the Heartland Institute, which itself is funded by polluting industries.[1]
https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Anthony_Watts
Willard Anthony Watts is a former radio and TV weatherman and notable global warming denier. He claims to have subscribed to AGW years ago before he saw the light and became a denier. He also claims that he is (otherwise) an environmentalist. This makes him something of an AGW concern troll.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Anthony_Watts
Sources in the Conspiracy-Pseudoscience category may publish unverifiable information that is not always supported by evidence. These sources may be untrustworthy for credible/verifiable information, therefore fact checking and further investigation is recommended on a per article basis when obtaining information from these sources. See all Conspiracy-Pseudoscience sources.

Factual Reporting: LOW

Notes: Watts Up With That? (or WUWT) is a blog promoting climate change denial that was created by Anthony Watts in 2006. The blog predominantly discusses climate issues with a focus on anthropogenic climate change, generally supporting beliefs that are in opposition to the scientific consensus on climate change.

In review, the sole purpose of the website is to debunk human influenced climate change. Climatologist Michael E. Mann has called WUWT the leading climate change denial blog. There are numerous articles written about WUWT and many failed fact checks that can be seen here through a factual search. Overall, WUWT is a strong pseudoscience and conspiracy website. (2/14/2017) Updated (D. Van Zandt 4/12/2018)
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/watts-up-with-that/
And I disagree with most of that. The citation referenced was to a privatization of the NWS discussion.

Is it not even acceptable to cite sources in a back-and-forth discussion of an issue?

Are we supposed to treat different sides of arguments and debates as Lord Voldemort?

"There are no "sides" in this debate!!!!!! Scrreeeeeee!!! Screeeee!!!!! You are infidel!!!! You are not of the body!!! Scree!!!!!"

Fuck of, know-nothing.
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Re: Farts and Climate Change

Post by Scot Dutchy » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:43 pm

Three for the price of one. The pattern continues.
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Re: Farts and Climate Change

Post by Cunt » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:29 pm

Animavore wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:50 am
Here is 42 quoting Watts Up With That. A denialist screed. Don't listen when he tries to claim he's not a denialist. It's as shallow as when he claims he's a liberal while quoting Fox News, or not a conspiracy theorist crackpot while linking InfoWars.

http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... t#p1750766
You guys can't maintain your conspiracy theories without lying about what other people believe.
rainbow wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:58 am
Cunt wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:08 pm
There are no accusers, he is just hoping some of his imaginary friends will cause you to answer.
Then why was Farty crying into his Wheaties, about being accused of being a denier.
Did you accuse him?

Or are you just trying to speak for someone to ashamed to speak out for themselves?

Yes, the government is awful, Trump is hated universally, but we should all surrender our guns to the government, and give them LOTS more money because carbon.

Sensible chuckle.
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Joe wrote:
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The 'Walsh Question' 'What Is A Woman?' I'll put an answer here when someone posts one that is clear and comprehensible, by apostates to the Faith.

Update: I've been offered one!
rainbow wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:23 pm
It is actually quite easy. A woman has at least one X chromosome.
Strong ideas don't require censorship to survive. Weak ideas cannot survive without it.

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Re: Farts and Climate Change

Post by JimC » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:11 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:05 pm
rainbow wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:58 am
Cunt wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:08 pm
There are no accusers, he is just hoping some of his imaginary friends will cause you to answer.
Then why was Farty crying into his Wheaties, about being accused of being a denier.
I'm not. You started this thread. I posted information about the impact of the livestock industry on greenhouse gases, and for some reason that set a lot of people off. I also favor technological solutions rather than non-market based authoritarianism, and that bothers people - because to be "not a denialist" you not only have to accept the science, you have to accept leftist political and economic solutions.
What you have to accept (if you are a non-denier) is that the consequences of "steady as she goes" will be to cause more and more damage to the biosphere (and human civilisation), and that we need to employ the most effective programs to reduce CO2 emissions, as quickly as possible. There will certainly be a need for innovative technology, but you may simply need to accept that we will also need a level of government intervention that conservatives may feel unpalatable. For much "normal" economic activity, free market solutions can be effective (with some clear limits), but climate change will require solutions which are beyond the power of "the invisible hand"...
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Re: Farts and Climate Change

Post by Cunt » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:15 pm

JimC wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:11 pm
What you have to accept (if you are a non-denier) is that the consequences of "steady as she goes" will be to cause more and more damage to the biosphere (and human civilisation), and that we need to employ the most effective programs to reduce CO2 emissions, as quickly as possible. There will certainly be a need for innovative technology, but you may simply need to accept that we will also need a level of government intervention that conservatives may feel unpalatable. For much "normal" economic activity, free market solutions can be effective (with some clear limits), but climate change will require solutions which are beyond the power of "the invisible hand"...
The trouble with this is, governments are invariably corrupt.

France tried hard, to do what you are suggesting here. Look at how well they are doing with it.

What you are recommending, if I may drive the point home, is that 300 million people chuck a bunch more money at the Trump government, and consider it done.

Or are you willing to accept that governments might not be the best choice to handle this stuff?
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Joe wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:22 pm
he doesn't communicate

The 'Walsh Question' 'What Is A Woman?' I'll put an answer here when someone posts one that is clear and comprehensible, by apostates to the Faith.

Update: I've been offered one!
rainbow wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:23 pm
It is actually quite easy. A woman has at least one X chromosome.
Strong ideas don't require censorship to survive. Weak ideas cannot survive without it.

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Re: Farts and Climate Change

Post by JimC » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:24 pm

Cunt wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:15 pm

Or are you willing to accept that governments might not be the best choice to handle this stuff?
Do you think that it should instead be left to the world's corporations?

I'm sure saving the planet is high on their business agenda... :tea:
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Re: Farts and Climate Change

Post by Cunt » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:32 pm

JimC wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:24 pm
Cunt wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:15 pm

Or are you willing to accept that governments might not be the best choice to handle this stuff?
Do you think that it should instead be left to the world's corporations?

I'm sure saving the planet is high on their business agenda... :tea:
So rather than answering me, when I have a clear, important point about the politics around the climate changers beliefs, you simply back away and say corporations aren't good either.

Why not tell me this - how much money should the Trump government be given, in addition to regular taxes, to address climate change? You can express it as an amount every American should be paying additionally, or as an amount his government should have total.
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Joe wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:22 pm
he doesn't communicate

The 'Walsh Question' 'What Is A Woman?' I'll put an answer here when someone posts one that is clear and comprehensible, by apostates to the Faith.

Update: I've been offered one!
rainbow wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:23 pm
It is actually quite easy. A woman has at least one X chromosome.
Strong ideas don't require censorship to survive. Weak ideas cannot survive without it.

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Re: Farts and Climate Change

Post by JimC » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:35 pm

So who should do something, if not governments and their agencies?

And it will not necessarily cost a lot, either. Removing financial support from fossil fuel interests, and simultaneously giving support such as tax breaks to renewable energy companies would push us in the right direction with relatively little cost...
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Re: Farts and Climate Change

Post by Cunt » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:46 pm

JimC wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:35 pm
So who should do something, if not governments and their agencies?

And it will not necessarily cost a lot, either. Removing financial support from fossil fuel interests, and simultaneously giving support such as tax breaks to renewable energy companies would push us in the right direction with relatively little cost...
I don't know.

It used to be ok to say that, but now, if I don't agree with giving government a bunch of money, I'm accused of being a denier.

I would say find the biggest polluters, and start there. I would further say that, when Asimov talked about this problem decades ago, he was probably right. (he sounded a lot smarter than Gore on the subject, THAT's for sure!)

He suggested that whatever we do, climate will change. To me, THAT is the crisis. Adding to the coffers of the Trump administration doesn't seem the best way through, but the reason I use that example is because there are wildly varying skill levels, motivations and efficacy in various national governments. Some of them might make smart decisions about this. Others might exploit others' willingness to make smart decisions.

The example I like to use is plastic bags. Friends saved them for re-use for YEARS, plugging endless effort into what was a giant waste of time.

A few changes to the way we do things, and now we manufacture heavier bags, which are STILL ending up in landfill, and are often no better environmentally.

To me, the friends who truly care, are much more effective when they think they have to do it (vs thinking the government will do it)

When I moved here, bottles and cans weren't recycled for money (the way it was in the rest of Canada). I noticed that when faced with this, myself and my friends made different decisions about what we brought into our homes as far as containers go.

Now, our government has joined the modern world and recycles. The glass here is collected, they give you your dime or quarter for it, then the smash it and truck it to the landfill.

So good of government to help out, but now those friends don't care as much about the garbage they generate, because they are 'recycling' it.
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Joe wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:22 pm
he doesn't communicate

The 'Walsh Question' 'What Is A Woman?' I'll put an answer here when someone posts one that is clear and comprehensible, by apostates to the Faith.

Update: I've been offered one!
rainbow wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:23 pm
It is actually quite easy. A woman has at least one X chromosome.
Strong ideas don't require censorship to survive. Weak ideas cannot survive without it.

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Re: Farts and Climate Change

Post by Seabass » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:24 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:08 pm
Seabass wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:53 am
Trigger Warning!!!1! :
Watts up with that?

googles...

Oh no... Ooh boy... :fp:
Watts Up With That? (or WUWT) is a blog[1] promoting climate change denial[2][3][4][5][6] that was created by Anthony Watts in 2006.[2][3]

The blog predominantly discusses climate issues with a focus on anthropogenic climate change, generally accommodating beliefs that are in opposition to the scientific consensus on climate change. Contributors include Christopher Monckton and Fred Singer as guest authors.[7] In November 2009, the blog was one of the first websites to publish emails and documents from the Climatic Research Unit controversy, and a driving force behind its coverage.[7]

In the early months of 2010, it was reported the site might be "the most read climate blog in the world,"[8] and in 2013 Michael E. Mann referred to it as the leading climate change denial blog.[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watts_Up_With_That%3F
Watts rejects the scientific consensus on climate change.[4][5][20] He believes that global warming is occurring, but that it is not as bad as has been reported, and that carbon dioxide plays a much smaller part than the sun in causing climatic change.[21][22][23] Watts has written that variations in solar irradiance, the sun's magnetic field and solar wind are driving changes to the climate,[22] contrary to the scientific consensus that the primary cause of climate change is an increase in greenhouse gasses, including carbon dioxide.[24][25] Climate models have been used to examine the role of the sun in recent warming,[26] and data collected on solar irradiance[27] and ozone depletion, as well as comparisons of temperature readings at different levels of the atmosphere[28][29] have shown that the sun is not a significant factor driving climate change.[30][31]

Watts is a signatory to the Leipzig Declaration[32] as well as the Manhattan Declaration, which calls for the immediate halt to any tax funded attempts to counteract climate change or reduce CO2 emissions, and suggests the consensus among climate scientists is "false".[33] Watts says he advocates for alternative energy sources and for the United States to "disengage from Middle East Oil."[34]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Watts_(blogger)
Monckton advocates for climate change denial,[49][53][54] and has stated that those who warn of the dangers of climate change should be jailed, calling them "bogus".[55]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christoph ... ate_change
According to David Biello and John Pavlus in Scientific American, Singer is best known for his denial of the health risks of passive smoking.[53] He was involved in 1994 as writer and reviewer of a report on the issue by the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution, where he was a senior fellow.[54] The report criticized the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) for their 1993 study about the cancer risks of passive smoking, calling it "junk science". Singer told CBC's The Fifth Estate in 2006 that he stood by the position that the EPA had "cooked the data" to show that second-hand smoke causes lung cancer. CBC said that tobacco money had paid for Singer's research and for his promotion of it, and that it was organized by APCO. Singer told CBC it made no difference where the money came from. "They don't carry a note on a dollar bill saying 'This comes from the tobacco industry,'" he said. "In any case I was not aware of it, and I didn't ask APCO where they get their money. That's not my business."[8] In December 2010 he wrote in American Thinker that he is nonsmoker who finds second-hand smoke an unpleasant irritant that cannot be healthy; he also wrote that his father, a heavy smoker, died of emphysema when relatively young. According to Singer, he serves on the advisory board of an anti-smoking organization, and has never been paid by Philip Morris or the tobacco lobby.[55]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Sing ... hand_smoke
Willard Anthony Watts (Anthony Watts) is a blogger, weathercaster and non-scientist, paid AGW denier who runs the website wattsupwiththat.com. He does not have a university qualification and has no climate credentials other than being a radio weather announcer. His website is parodied and debunked at the website wottsupwiththat.com Watts is on the payroll of the Heartland Institute, which itself is funded by polluting industries.[1]
https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Anthony_Watts
Willard Anthony Watts is a former radio and TV weatherman and notable global warming denier. He claims to have subscribed to AGW years ago before he saw the light and became a denier. He also claims that he is (otherwise) an environmentalist. This makes him something of an AGW concern troll.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Anthony_Watts
Sources in the Conspiracy-Pseudoscience category may publish unverifiable information that is not always supported by evidence. These sources may be untrustworthy for credible/verifiable information, therefore fact checking and further investigation is recommended on a per article basis when obtaining information from these sources. See all Conspiracy-Pseudoscience sources.

Factual Reporting: LOW

Notes: Watts Up With That? (or WUWT) is a blog promoting climate change denial that was created by Anthony Watts in 2006. The blog predominantly discusses climate issues with a focus on anthropogenic climate change, generally supporting beliefs that are in opposition to the scientific consensus on climate change.

In review, the sole purpose of the website is to debunk human influenced climate change. Climatologist Michael E. Mann has called WUWT the leading climate change denial blog. There are numerous articles written about WUWT and many failed fact checks that can be seen here through a factual search. Overall, WUWT is a strong pseudoscience and conspiracy website. (2/14/2017) Updated (D. Van Zandt 4/12/2018)
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/watts-up-with-that/
And I disagree with most of that. The citation referenced was to a privatization of the NWS discussion.

Is it not even acceptable to cite sources in a back-and-forth discussion of an issue?

Are we supposed to treat different sides of arguments and debates as Lord Voldemort?

"There are no "sides" in this debate!!!!!! Scrreeeeeee!!! Screeeee!!!!! You are infidel!!!! You are not of the body!!! Scree!!!!!"

Fuck of, know-nothing.
"Fuck of, know-nothing?"

You have long history of citing untrustworthy sources that are widely known to peddle propaganda, misinformation, disinformation, and wacky conspiracy theories. It's a pattern that makes it impossible to take anything you say seriously. You try to downplay and minimize your reliance on these websites, but the evidence is all over the forum, easily accessible through the forum's search engine.

Honestly, you may as well add Nostradamus to your arsenal.

Having a difference of opinion is fine, but when all your opinions are backed up by obvious horse shit, you have a problem.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." —Voltaire
"They want to take away your hamburgers. This is what Stalin dreamt about but never achieved." —Sebastian Gorka

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Re: Farts and Climate Change

Post by Cunt » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:39 pm

Seabass wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:24 pm

Having a difference of opinion is fine, but when all your opinions are backed up by obvious horse shit, you have a problem.
Your opinions are so richly varied between liking Trump policies and disliking them, it's clear you don't see the same problem in yourself.
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Joe wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:22 pm
he doesn't communicate

The 'Walsh Question' 'What Is A Woman?' I'll put an answer here when someone posts one that is clear and comprehensible, by apostates to the Faith.

Update: I've been offered one!
rainbow wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:23 pm
It is actually quite easy. A woman has at least one X chromosome.
Strong ideas don't require censorship to survive. Weak ideas cannot survive without it.

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Re: Farts and Climate Change

Post by JimC » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:21 pm

Cunt, personal actions of various sorts are important, sure, but are unlikely by themselves to make enough difference quickly enough. I think that dealing with the environmental crisis that our burning of fossil fuels has begun will require the application of a whole range of solutions. If people who are ideologically opposed to government intervention want to rule out some of those avenues (whether they are carbon taxes or direct support of renewables) then they are removing some of the ways we can use to cut our CO2 problem.
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Re: Farts and Climate Change

Post by Cunt » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:33 pm

JimC wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:21 pm
Cunt, personal actions of various sorts are important, sure, but are unlikely by themselves to make enough difference quickly enough. I think that dealing with the environmental crisis that our burning of fossil fuels has begun will require the application of a whole range of solutions. If people who are ideologically opposed to government intervention want to rule out some of those avenues (whether they are carbon taxes or direct support of renewables) then they are removing some of the ways we can use to cut our CO2 problem.
So I'm convinced that the climate is changing, and don't deny that human activity is a contributor.

From there, I'm asked now to accept that burning fossil fuel is the main problem (maybe) and that a whole 'range of solutions' should be implemented with my money.

If you say that stopping a pipeline is important, and I think putting it through is more important, am I the climate change denier? Or are you?

The issues are complicated, and asking me to trust government economists (they do SUCH a great job at the economy!) to have it all figured out.

Next, any resistance and the accusations of climate change denier come out.

I think anyone not willing to examine issues like pipelines has their heads in the clouds. Standing on one side or the other is fine, as long as you are willing to examine the issues.

So where are you on pipelines? Are they the most efficient, cleanest way to move our required oil? Or an environmental catastrophe which must be stopped?
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Joe wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:22 pm
he doesn't communicate

The 'Walsh Question' 'What Is A Woman?' I'll put an answer here when someone posts one that is clear and comprehensible, by apostates to the Faith.

Update: I've been offered one!
rainbow wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:23 pm
It is actually quite easy. A woman has at least one X chromosome.
Strong ideas don't require censorship to survive. Weak ideas cannot survive without it.

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Re: Farts and Climate Change

Post by JimC » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:51 am

Pipelines are a side issue. World-wide, the pressing issue, and perhaps the most straightforward to deal with, is to replace the burning of coal for electricity by a variety of non-CO2 producing methods. This is the low-hanging fruit...
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Re: Farts and Climate Change

Post by Cunt » Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:08 am

JimC wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:51 am
Pipelines are a side issue. World-wide, the pressing issue, and perhaps the most straightforward to deal with, is to replace the burning of coal for electricity by a variety of non-CO2 producing methods. This is the low-hanging fruit...
Still with you if the numbers are solid on that, but I'm still not convinced of what such action would do.

And I'm not convinced that giving money to the government would achieve your goal either.

Trump, for example, would not use the carbon tax to your satisfaction (I would guess, considering what I remember about him and coal) so you must see my point.

Government and their blanket statements are not to be trusted. Especially untrustworthy (to me) are censorious governments holding what appears to be moral high ground, with their noses ever so slightly aloft.

Pipelines are not only a side issue, they are 'where the rubber meets the road' in some areas. Greenies fighting for 'No Pipeline' end up forcing that same fuel to be shipped by other (leakier) means, which burn more fuel in the transport. Nice work, huh?
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Joe wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:22 pm
he doesn't communicate

The 'Walsh Question' 'What Is A Woman?' I'll put an answer here when someone posts one that is clear and comprehensible, by apostates to the Faith.

Update: I've been offered one!
rainbow wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:23 pm
It is actually quite easy. A woman has at least one X chromosome.
Strong ideas don't require censorship to survive. Weak ideas cannot survive without it.

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