Would you buy an electric car?

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Rum
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Re: Would you buy an electric car?

Post by Rum » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:30 pm

laklak wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:21 pm
It will be shank's mare after the pandemics, the Yellowstone eruption, the Canary Island megatsunami, and the Race Wars. /crumple
You left out economic collapse. That happens first I think.

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Re: Would you buy an electric car?

Post by Tero » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:31 pm

So we'll never see this?
http://karireport.blogspot.com/ (:_funny_:)
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"Brown Shoes Don't Make It" is a song about the people who run the governments, the people who make the laws that keep you from living the kind of life you know you should lead. These unfortunate people manufacture inequitable laws and ordinance, perhaps unaware of the fact that the restrictions they place on the young people in a society are a result of their own hidden sexual frustrations. Dirty old men have no business running your country.

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Re: Would you buy an electric car?

Post by Tero » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:31 pm

Rum wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:30 pm
laklak wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:21 pm
It will be shank's mare after the pandemics, the Yellowstone eruption, the Canary Island megatsunami, and the Race Wars. /crumple
You left out economic collapse. That happens first I think.
communism! After capitalism collapses.
http://karireport.blogspot.com/ (:_funny_:)
http://esapolitics.blogspot.com/
"Brown Shoes Don't Make It" is a song about the people who run the governments, the people who make the laws that keep you from living the kind of life you know you should lead. These unfortunate people manufacture inequitable laws and ordinance, perhaps unaware of the fact that the restrictions they place on the young people in a society are a result of their own hidden sexual frustrations. Dirty old men have no business running your country.

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Re: Would you buy an electric car?

Post by laklak » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:50 pm

Tero wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:31 pm
Rum wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:30 pm
laklak wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:21 pm
It will be shank's mare after the pandemics, the Yellowstone eruption, the Canary Island megatsunami, and the Race Wars. /crumple
You left out economic collapse. That happens first I think.
communism! After capitalism collapses.
Fascism! After communism collapses.



Then lizard aliens.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Would you buy an electric car?

Post by Brian Peacock » Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:41 pm

Then the zombie uprising! :zombie:.
.

"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.

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Re: Would you buy an electric car?

Post by Rum » Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:58 pm

Did anyone mention ebola? Its coming you know!

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Re: Would you buy an electric car?

Post by Brian Peacock » Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:35 pm

:hairfire:
.

"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

Frank Zappa

"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.

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Re: Would you buy an electric car?

Post by Alan B » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:06 pm

Electric cars are OK in small quantities. But if we have to ditch fossil fuels in the not so far off future (this will mean no hybrid vehicles), then we should consider an 'all-electric'' scenario. Calculating for cars and small vans only we have:
g. There are about 35 million licensed cars and vans on the UK roads (2016 figures). Will they (in the future of an ‘all electric’ UK) each require access to a dedicated parking space with a ‘long-term’ or ‘over-night’ charging point? (Future population growth could see this figure increase considerably). See “DVLA: Vehicle Licensing Statistics: Annual 2016”.
h. On the assumption that all electric cars and vans are fitted with a 30kWh battery (e.g. Nissan LEAF or similar) and charged for seven hours from empty to full from a UK 230v ‘home’ source, it would require an extra 3.68kW per hour from each domestic supply per vehicle (Nissan's figures). In order to supply 35 million such vehicles for ‘overnight’ charging, the additional national power generating capacity would need to be in the order of 128,800 Megawatts minimum per hour for the charging period (which would reduce as each battery reaches ‘full’ - some sooner than others). At maximum simultaneous usage this would be equivalent to more than 39 Hinkley Point C nuclear power stations at 3,260 Megawatts each. And, of course, the domestic supply cabling to each road/street/district will need to be upgraded to accommodate the extra current drain of 16 amperes per vehicle (assuming a 30kWh battery).
Note: With a mains supply of 115v, this current will be about 32 amperes.

It should also be noted that some car manufacturers are developing batteries with more than ten times the capacity of the Nissan LEAF battery.

The figures above assume a theoretical maximum usage and any power required is in addition to other domestic, industrial and commercial usage. The figures do not take into account generating and distribution losses.

The quote above is from an article I wrote when thinking about the UK government's proposal that all cars and small vans will be electric in about 20 years time...
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Re: Would you buy an electric car?

Post by Brian Peacock » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:10 pm

You could post the whole article in The Seminary section of the forum if you like Alan.
.

"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

Frank Zappa

"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.

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Re: Would you buy an electric car?

Post by laklak » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:25 am

Alan you're confusing the issue with facts. You must hate Mother Earth and probably puppies.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Would you buy an electric car?

Post by Rum » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:50 am

Alan B wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:06 pm
Electric cars are OK in small quantities. But if we have to ditch fossil fuels in the not so far off future (this will mean no hybrid vehicles), then we should consider an 'all-electric'' scenario. Calculating for cars and small vans only we have:
g. There are about 35 million licensed cars and vans on the UK roads (2016 figures). Will they (in the future of an ‘all electric’ UK) each require access to a dedicated parking space with a ‘long-term’ or ‘over-night’ charging point? (Future population growth could see this figure increase considerably). See “DVLA: Vehicle Licensing Statistics: Annual 2016”.
h. On the assumption that all electric cars and vans are fitted with a 30kWh battery (e.g. Nissan LEAF or similar) and charged for seven hours from empty to full from a UK 230v ‘home’ source, it would require an extra 3.68kW per hour from each domestic supply per vehicle (Nissan's figures). In order to supply 35 million such vehicles for ‘overnight’ charging, the additional national power generating capacity would need to be in the order of 128,800 Megawatts minimum per hour for the charging period (which would reduce as each battery reaches ‘full’ - some sooner than others). At maximum simultaneous usage this would be equivalent to more than 39 Hinkley Point C nuclear power stations at 3,260 Megawatts each. And, of course, the domestic supply cabling to each road/street/district will need to be upgraded to accommodate the extra current drain of 16 amperes per vehicle (assuming a 30kWh battery).
Note: With a mains supply of 115v, this current will be about 32 amperes.

It should also be noted that some car manufacturers are developing batteries with more than ten times the capacity of the Nissan LEAF battery.

The figures above assume a theoretical maximum usage and any power required is in addition to other domestic, industrial and commercial usage. The figures do not take into account generating and distribution losses.

The quote above is from an article I wrote when thinking about the UK government's proposal that all cars and small vans will be electric in about 20 years time...
Very interesting. Clearly a lot of work to be don before mass adoption.

As to the timing of adoption - given how fast the battery technology seem to be advancing it is difficult to know when to jump. New tech paranoia - whether to be an early adopter and then live with new tech envy and irritation as someone next door gets a much superior model that can do double the mileage three months after you have forked oy 25K!

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Re: Would you buy an electric car?

Post by Scot Dutchy » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:25 am

I agree that is very much calculated with the present technology and present infrastructure. Both are going to change drastically.
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Re: Would you buy an electric car?

Post by Svartalf » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:22 am

electric cars don't emit green house gases and other pollutants, true, but their fabrication, in particular the batteries is most polluting, if only in the region of extraction of the elements and the place of manufacture... then you have to be careful how cleanly the electricity you pour into that car is produced... in Canada, with all the hydropower they have, IK wouldn't hesitate, anywhere they have fuel or coal power stations, I'd hesitate...
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Re: Would you buy an electric car?

Post by Hermit » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:54 am

Svartalf wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:22 am
electric cars don't emit green house gases and other pollutants, true, but their fabrication, in particular the batteries is most polluting, if only in the region of extraction of the elements and the place of manufacture... then you have to be careful how cleanly the electricity you pour into that car is produced... in Canada, with all the hydropower they have, IK wouldn't hesitate, anywhere they have fuel or coal power stations, I'd hesitate...
I mentioned those considerations here earlier in this thread? Firstly, what exactly is the benefit of driving a car on non-polluting electricity if the electricity used is generated by fossil fuels or some other source of non-renewable energy sources? Secondly, why do so many advocates of electric cars ignore the environmental costs of producing those cars, particularly those of their batteries, which have to be replaced at regular intervals?

Additionally, I join others who encouraged Alan B to publish his article on the logistic implications of going fully electrical he excerpted here in full.

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Re: Would you buy an electric car?

Post by Svartalf » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:58 am

I responded before reading through the thread, I'm not trying to disagree with anybody today.
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