Relativity

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Re: Relativity

Post by mistermack » Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:30 pm

pErvinalia wrote:Acceleration is m/s/s, not degrees/s/s.
Acceleration is change in velocity over time.
As velocity has both magnitude and direction, in the case of rotation around the centre of the Milky way, it's the change of direction that's relevant, not the speed at any instant.
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Re: Relativity

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:06 pm

laklak wrote:Relativity differs from location to location. Your sister, for example, isn't a relative in Arkansas but is in New York.
:lol:
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Re: Relativity

Post by Alan B » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:19 pm

laklak wrote:Relativity differs from location to location. Your sister, for example, isn't a relative in Arkansas but is in New York.
What about kissin' cousins?
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Re: Relativity

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:22 pm

mistermack wrote:
pErvinalia wrote:Acceleration is m/s/s, not degrees/s/s.
Acceleration is change in velocity over time.
As velocity has both magnitude and direction, in the case of rotation around the centre of the Milky way, it's the change of direction that's relevant, not the speed at any instant.
Good point.

But still, both station and train are accelerating. Is the effect of acceleration/gravity linearly related to its effect on the Special Relativity equations? What I mean by that is, is the fact that it's only a small amount of acceleration/gravity mean that it only introduces a small variance into the Special Relativity equations?
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Re: Relativity

Post by Forty Two » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:37 pm

Pogue wrote:There was something I was wondering about because I’ve been thinking about thr implications of Einstein’s theory of relativity(which I haven’t studied much).Relativity says that if you are on a train and someone else is on the ground,then relative to the person on the train, the person on the ground is moving the other way. So, could you say that relative to the earth, the sun is revolving around it as opposed to the earth moving around the sun which is relative to the sun. Maybe one of those ancient philosophers(aristotle) were correct and the earth is at the centre of the universe if you use a certain frame of reference.
The sun and the Earth are moving around a center of masses (gravity). Since the sun is much more massive than the Earth, the center of masses (gravity) is inside the sun but not at the center.
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Re: Relativity

Post by mistermack » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:44 pm

An easy way to picture the size of the effect is to imagine trying to stand upright.
Or to measure the offset from the vertical of a weight on a string.

Standing on a child's roundabout, you would have to lean a lot towards the centre, to compensate.
And a weight on a string would swing outwards at a visible angle.

Compare that to our rotation around the Sun once a year. You can't feel anything standing up, and it would take incredibly accurate equipment to measure the deflection of the weight on the string from vertical. I don't know if it's ever been done.

Now make another jump to us circling the Milky Way once every 250 million years. I think the deflection from the vertical would never be measurable.

There is a formula for the g force, I remember it from a discussion on generating artificial gravity in space.
The one fact I remember is that if you want to generate 1g, and you want a rpm figure of less than 2 you need a craft of minimum 200m diameter. (you need to rotate slower than 2rpm to avoid any dizzyness or sick feeling)
I don't know what 1 rev per 250 million years converts to in rpm, but I doubt that your balance organs would ever detect it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_gravity Scroll down to see the formulae.
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Re: Relativity

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:48 pm

Sure. But that doesn't really answer the question, though. They're still accelerating.
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Re: Relativity

Post by mistermack » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:52 pm

pErvinalia wrote:Sure. But that doesn't really answer the question, though. They're still accelerating.
Yes, by a minuscule and negligible amount.
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Re: Relativity

Post by Forty Two » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:55 pm

Negligible and miniscule are relative terms.
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Re: Relativity

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:55 pm

You still haven't answered the question. Is the effect on the SR equations similarly miniscule? Remember, SR applies to NON-accelerating frames (to the best of my knowledge).
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Re: Relativity

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:56 pm

Forty Two wrote:Negligible and miniscule are relative terms.
This.
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Re: Relativity

Post by mistermack » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:23 pm

pErvinalia wrote:You still haven't answered the question. Is the effect on the SR equations similarly miniscule? Remember, SR applies to NON-accelerating frames (to the best of my knowledge).
Well, it depends what you are trying to calculate, doesn't it?

If you bothered with google, you might find out if NASA needs to account for the rotation around the Milky Way, when calculating the route of it's Mars missions.
Since we are affected about the same on Earth, as Mars is, and the space ship would also be experiencing the same acceleration, I think it would be miniscule, negligible and pointless to try, but I'm guessing based on those facts.
Maybe if you are trying to calculate the positions of celestial bodies outside of the galaxy over billions of years, you might need to make adjustments.
It depends what you are doing. I don't do a lot of that stuff.
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Re: Relativity

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:24 pm

We are talking about relativity, not a space flight to Mars.
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Re: Relativity

Post by mistermack » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:29 pm

pErvinalia wrote:We are talking about relativity, not a space flight to Mars.
I don't think you have much of a clue about either.
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Re: Relativity

Post by laklak » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:40 pm

If you're talking about a Mars flight then the sun, earth, mars, and the spacecraft would be in the same frame of reference, IIRC. It's physics, Jim, but not as we know it.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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