"Alt-left" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

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Re: "Alt-left" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Forty Two » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:32 pm

Hermit wrote:
laklak wrote:Would somebody please define "corporate welfare"?
The most obvious are government subsidies, tax concessions and loan guarantees. They're all the rage in Australia. There are others.
In the US, we see it all over too - Solyndra, green energy subsidies, bailouts of FNMA and Freddie Mac, bailout of AIG, bailout of General Motors, bailout of Bank of America, Citibank, JP Morgan Chase, Chrysler, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley... Troubled Asset Relief Fund, Public Private Investment Program, Targeted INvestment Program, Term Asset Backed Lending Investment Facility....the list goes on and on.... whose against these now? Let's take a poll of Ratz...lol
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Re: "Alt-left" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Svartalf » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:34 pm

laklak wrote:Would somebody please define "corporate welfare"?
the state providing subsidies to businesses out of the public purse.
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Re: "Alt-left" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Animavore » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:47 pm

Talking about economics now? Not enough gossip on the elusive "alt left"?
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Re: "Alt-left" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Forty Two » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:56 pm

Animavore wrote:Talking about economics now? Not enough gossip on the elusive "alt left"?
LOL - Assclown Left is better, if you prefer. This whole "there's no such thing as the Alt Left" is getting tiresome. Look, it's a term being used to describe that portion of the left that is hard left, radical, antifa-like. You know, the douchebag left. The assclown left. The fucking extreme, hard left.

There's no actual organization called the Alt Right either. It's just a label on a group of loosely associated groups of people of varying degrees of asshattery.
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Re: Re:

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:10 pm

Forty Two wrote:
pErvin wrote:
Forty Two wrote:You've been involved in threads where I've railed against massive wasteful corporate welfare, and you've been in favor of it. Yet you won't admit that, will you?
What in the fuck?!? :funny: Man, you must live in an entirely different universe to the rest of us. Not only would there not be a thread here were you "railed" against corporate welfare, there definitely won't be one where you find me in favour of it. You must be literally high. :lol:
So you were against green energy subsidies, and other such corporate welfare? You were against the bailouts in the economic crisis? You were against the stimulus package? All of that was corporate welfare.
I'm talking about in the ordinary state of affairs. In a crisis, of course extraordinary measure will need to be taken.

Green energy subsidies is not a simple as you'd like it to be. First off, renewables are at a massive disadvantage in the amount of subsidies they receive compared to fossil fuels. So the first step in addressing that wouldn't be to increase subsidies to renewables. It would be to cut the subsidies to the fossil fuels industry. Then you have to factor in climate change and the inability of the free market to deal with long-term problems like that. Of course, if one thinks climate change is a giant conspiracy, then they are unlikely to support efforts to avert a climate disaster.
If so, confirm that you're against them, and I'll admit that I was wrong in suggesting otherwise.
In the ordinary state of affairs, I'm against corporate welfare.
pErvin wrote:
pErvin wrote:

You won't find me in favor of corporate welfare, but I bet dollars-to-doughnuts that you are in favor of a good chunk of it, as long as the right corporations get the subsidies.... yes?
Well that's a new one. Normally I get wrongly accused of being a Marxist. Now I'm apparently a proto-fascist or something! :lol:
Where did I say that? I asked you a question.
You can't even understand your own words when you even quote them! :lol: You just accused me of being in favour of a large chunk of corporate welfare.
I said I bet you would be in favor of some, and I ended the sentence with "yes?" Asking you to confirm or deny it. You haven't yet.
:fp: This is why debating you is pointless. Do you bet large sums of money on backing facts that are wrong? FFS. You can't even admit stuff when your own words are quoted back at you.
pErvin wrote: You did way more than ask me a question. And no, of course I'm fucking not in favour of any corporate welfare. Haven't you read a single thing I've written on these forums over the last 6 years??
Really? So, I won't find you in favor of subsidies for certain industries? I won't find you in favor of bailouts during financial crises? I won't find you in favor of stimulus packages?
Addressed above.
I won't find you in favor of things like Obamacare, which provides massive subsidies to the private insurance industry?


Man, what are you on?! I've caned Obamacare endlessly. I've never once been in favour of it. You really are the most biased person I have ever met. I've never seen anyone who can construct such an obviously false reality based on the way they want things to be. You really just can't comprehend the concept of a lefty who's generally fairly libertarian (libertarian, not American right-libertarian), but isn't ideological - such that I can adopt some non-libertarian concepts based on a rational assessment of their benefits. You really just can't comprehend such a person.
Lack is right - let's start by defining "corporate welfare." I'll leave that to you.
It's been defined literally hundreds (and most likely thousands) of times on this forum and the last two. People like you and Seth (and it seems Siva) are ideologues. You see the world a certain way and it has to remain that way for your reality to make sense. Hence why it's pointless debating with ideologues. There's nothing that can be said in any one or a few debates that would ever change your minds. Perhaps over a period of many years it might work. Someone else is going to have to do it, then. I've got better things to do with my time.
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Re: "Alt-left" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Hermit » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:22 pm

I'm getting fed up with the constantly repeated assertion of there being no alt-left. So what if the label has been bestowed from outside? There is no concrete organisation that has named itself "deplorables" either, but who would argue that it doesn't exist in a lose and diffuse, yet very real way? Let go already, Animavore. You're making yourself look ridiculous.

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Re: "Alt-left" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:34 pm

I don't think he is. It's a stunt by the right to create a false equivalency. Why accede to that? I don't personally care what anyone on the right calls me. Although, it does get a bit annoying being called a Marxist when I am openly anti-Marxist. To be honest, the label that annoys me the most is the term "cultural Marxism". It's nothing more than a conspiracy theory. It's patently ridiculous. Yet we are hearing it more and more these days. I guess the lesson is that propaganda is a still a strong force in these days of reasonably free access to information.
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Re: "Alt-left" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Animavore » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:39 pm

Hermit wrote:I'm getting fed up with the constantly repeated assertion of there being no alt-left. So what if the label has been bestowed from outside? There is no concrete organisation that has named itself "deplorables" either, but who would argue that it doesn't exist in a lose and diffuse, yet very real way? Let go already, Animavore. You're making yourself look ridiculous.
I really am not. When the Alt Right use the term to refer to disparate groups such as ISIS and BLM, as two separate groups as I can imagine (ISIS are closer to the Alt Right, ironically) the term is absolutely meaningless.

But you keep using the nebulous term which describes nothing anyone can point to, like a conspiracy theorist talking about the clandestine "them", all you want. It's not me who looks ridiculous.
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Re: "Alt-left" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Śiva » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:51 pm

Pelosi calls for the prosecution of 'violent' antifa members
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi is calling for the prosecution of violent members of the group known as "antifa," or anti-fascists.

"Our democracy has no room for inciting violence or endangering the public, no matter the ideology of those who commit such acts," Pelosi said in a statement. "The violent actions of people calling themselves antifa in Berkeley this weekend deserve unequivocal condemnation, and the perpetrators should be arrested and prosecuted."

The San Francisco Democrat was quick to separate antifa from the Democratic Party, telling the Denver' Post's editorial board on Wednesday: "You're not talking about the far left of the Democratic Party — they're not even Democrats. A lot of them are socialist or anarchist or whatever."

Antifa members clad in black clothing and masks arrived at the "No to Marxism in Berkeley" rally on Sunday and physically attacked right-wing demonstrators and journalists alike.
In one instance, antifa members beat a man with sticks and fists until radio host Al Letson jumped in and shielded the victim from antifa attackers.
A number of journalists also reported that they were harassed by antifa members who did not want to be recorded. A video shows one reporter fleeing from a group of antifa members shouting "take his camera, take his phone."
http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/ ... 162909.php
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Re: "Alt-left" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Forty Two » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:56 pm

pErvin wrote:I don't think he is. It's a stunt by the right to create a false equivalency.
It's not a false equivalency, they ARE both asshats and assclowns. Everyone is free to opine which "side" they feel has the better moral claim. That's not a "false equivalency" that's a difference of opinion. Some people think the Assclown Left is as bad, or worse as the Assclown Right. That's not false equivalency, unless for some reason we take the opinion that the far left is better than the far right as a factual given - which it is not.
pErvin wrote: Why accede to that? I don't personally care what anyone on the right calls me. Although, it does get a bit annoying being called a Marxist when I am openly anti-Marxist. To be honest, the label that annoys me the most is the term "cultural Marxism". It's nothing more than a conspiracy theory. It's patently ridiculous. Yet we are hearing it more and more these days. I guess the lesson is that propaganda is a still a strong force in these days of reasonably free access to information.
I'm openly anti-Marxist, too. So, I agree. Marxism, however, is a very popular idea on the far Left, at least in the US. Here is a good summation of what's going on:
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Re: "Alt-left" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Svartalf » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:58 pm

Hermit wrote:I'm getting fed up with the constantly repeated assertion of there being no alt-left. So what if the label has been bestowed from outside? There is no concrete organisation that has named itself "deplorables" either, but who would argue that it doesn't exist in a lose and diffuse, yet very real way? Let go already, Animavore. You're making yourself look ridiculous.
so, even if you have to use alt right designations as a source, what IS alt-left?

The thing still is that alt-right is a self assigned term while alt-left is solely used by its self designed adversaries.
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Re: "Alt-left" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:03 pm

Śiva wrote:" A lot of them are socialist or anarchist or whatever."
:lol:
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Re: "Alt-left" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:04 pm

Forty Two wrote:
pErvin wrote:I don't think he is. It's a stunt by the right to create a false equivalency.
It's not a false equivalency, they ARE both asshats and assclowns. Everyone is free to opine which "side" they feel has the better moral claim. That's not a "false equivalency" that's a difference of opinion. Some people think the Assclown Left is as bad, or worse as the Assclown Right. That's not false equivalency, unless for some reason we take the opinion that the far left is better than the far right as a factual given - which it is not.
pErvin wrote: Why accede to that? I don't personally care what anyone on the right calls me. Although, it does get a bit annoying being called a Marxist when I am openly anti-Marxist. To be honest, the label that annoys me the most is the term "cultural Marxism". It's nothing more than a conspiracy theory. It's patently ridiculous. Yet we are hearing it more and more these days. I guess the lesson is that propaganda is a still a strong force in these days of reasonably free access to information.
I'm openly anti-Marxist, too. So, I agree. Marxism, however, is a very popular idea on the far Left, at least in the US. Here is a good summation of what's going on:
I've seen him speak before in one of your threads. He's a borderline nutjob. "Very popular idea".... riiiigght.. :roll:
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Re: "Alt-left" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Forty Two » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:30 pm

If you ever feel sad, remember that somewhere in the world there is a fat kid dropping his favorite ice cream cone.

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Re: "Alt-left" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by JimC » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:49 pm

pErvin wrote:
Śiva wrote:" A lot of them are socialist or anarchist or whatever."
:lol:
It's the evil "whatevers" you have to look out for. They'll rip your arm off and beat you with the soggy end at the drop of a hat! :nervous:
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