Rain question

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Rain question

Post by Rum » Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:53 am

Do you get wetter running a given distance in the rain or walking the same distance do you think?

Walking, you are longer in the rain so more raindrops hit you. On the other hand running you are 'encountering' raindrops faster and therefore more raindrops hit you.

This has puzzled me for many years. :think:


Actually now I put it like that, its simple (I think) the longer you are in the rain the more rain drops will hit the surface. On the other hand if you are going faster, don't more hit it? Hmm..

Is the answer 'the same'?
Last edited by Rum on Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Rain question

Post by JimC » Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:25 am

Rum wrote:Do you get wetter running a given distance in the rain or walking the same distance do you think?

Walking, you are longer in the rain so more raindrops hit you. On the other hand running you are 'encountering' raindrops faster and therefore more raindrops hit you.

This has puzzled me for many years. :think:
Running, beause you horizontal area is much bigger than your vertical area...

(I think this is right, but I am a little uneasy. It should be possible to reduce it to equations... :eddy: )
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Re: Rain question

Post by Rum » Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:36 am

JimC wrote:
Rum wrote:Do you get wetter running a given distance in the rain or walking the same distance do you think?

Walking, you are longer in the rain so more raindrops hit you. On the other hand running you are 'encountering' raindrops faster and therefore more raindrops hit you.

This has puzzled me for many years. :think:
Running, beause you horizontal area is much bigger than your vertical area...

(I think this is right, but I am a little uneasy. It should be possible to reduce it to equations... :eddy: )
OK, I had not thought of the horizontal issue!

Let's assume an area on the top of your head.

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Re: Rain question

Post by JimC » Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:45 am

Rum wrote:
JimC wrote:
Rum wrote:Do you get wetter running a given distance in the rain or walking the same distance do you think?

Walking, you are longer in the rain so more raindrops hit you. On the other hand running you are 'encountering' raindrops faster and therefore more raindrops hit you.

This has puzzled me for many years. :think:
Running, beause you horizontal area is much bigger than your vertical area...

(I think this is right, but I am a little uneasy. It should be possible to reduce it to equations... :eddy: )
OK, I had not thought of the horizontal issue!

Let's assume an area on the top of your head.
Just that, and walking would gather more...

But if we consider the total volume of water impacting anywhere on your body, it may be running...

As always, the equations are the ultimate reality, all else is snare and illusion... :levi:

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Re: Rain question

Post by The Curious Squid » Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:04 am

I'm sure this was on Mythbusters (Not the most scientific of shows) and they came to the same conclusion as Jim, when you run you get wetter.

Personally, I like walking in the rain and have never seen the point in running, it's just water :dono:
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Re: Rain question

Post by Animavore » Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:05 am

What if it were windy and the rain was at a 30o angle to the ground?
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Re: Rain question

Post by Twiglet » Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:55 am

I think the answer is simply that in most cases you get wetter the slower you go, pure and simple.

The seeming contradiction arises from the fact you will get wetter, faster, by running... i.e. you get wetter "per minute".

Essentially, you "sweep out" and area by walking, and "collect" rain within that area.

You "collect" rain on your head (from above) and on your body (by running into it).

It's trivially easy to see that no matter the direction of the rain, you are going to sweep out the same area of rain onto your body no matter how fast you are walking. Just the surface area of your front, multiplied by the distance you need to travel.

The rain falling on your head, on the other hand, is a function of how long you stand in the rain.

There are some things you can do to minimise how wet you get, including how you angle your body to minimise how much rain you expose yourself to by angling your body to minimise its area with respect to the direction the rain is falling in, compared with your speed. That's easily understood playing with an umbrella and changing its angle as you walk to shield off the rain.

The simple solution is - if you have a set distance to go - the quicker you are, the drier you will stay. Though you will get wetter per second going fast than slow.

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Re: Rain question

Post by Ele » Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:06 am

What a great question - and such clever answers! :)

When you run, you miss being hit by the raindrops which fell behind you and you are caught by fewer of the ones ahead.

But if you run with an umbrella, it blows backwards and inside out so... just don't run with an umbrella.... unless it is one of these cool tube umbrellas and you can manage not to trip over it:

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Re: Rain question

Post by Rum » Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:28 pm

The running/angle/wind issue is a red herring!

Assume then a square piece of material moving along the ground and parallel to is for the sake of clarity. Do more rain drops hit it going faster or slower between to points?

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Re: Rain question

Post by FBM » Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:34 pm

I love this website:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/rea ... or-walking

Which will keep you drier, running through the rain or walking?
October 16, 1992
Dear Cecil:

Jumpin' Jack and Lazy Jim, twins, emerge from a fancy restaurant only to find all the valets have split and a heavy rainstorm lies between them and their car, 100 yards away. Jumpin' Jack bets Lazy Jim that if he runs and Jim walks, he will arrive at the car not only faster but drier. Jim accepts the bet, arguing that Jack's broad chest will run into more raindrops than will hit Jim on the top of his slow moving but small head. Who wins the bet? If distance and rain density are important to figuring the answer, please provide us with a handy wallet chart so we may know when to be nimble and when not. Meanwhile, I'll place my bet with Jack.

— Ryan Kuhn, Chicago

Dear Ryan:

You're obviously a sensible young man, which is more than I can say for some of the people who have looked into this. According to Discover magazine, Alessandro De Angelis, a physicist at the University of Udine, Italy, calculated some years ago that "a sprinter racing along at 22.4 miles an hour does get less wet, but only 10 percent less wet, than a hasty stroller (6.7 miles an hour)." Conclusion: running isn't worth the trouble.

I haven't been able to find the original paper, if any, on which this report was based, so I don't know how De Angelis arrived at his conclusion. Not that it matters. Neither theory nor experiment (mine) bears out his crackbrain view. Running through the rain will keep you a lot drier (not just 10% drier) than walking.

First the theory. We divide the raindrops hitting you into two categories: (1) head drops, which fall from above and would hit you even if you were standing still; and (2) chest drops, which you run/walk into and which wouldn't hit you if you were standing still. We can all agree that the number of head drops is strictly a function of how long you're out in the rain; if you run, fewer head drops. The question is whether the allegedly larger number of chest drops you get when running outweighs the definitely larger number of head drops you get while walking.

Not to keep you in suspense, the answer is no. If we ignore aerodynamic effects, we can show mathematically (but won't) that while you'll collect many fewer head drops running rather than walking, you'll get exactly the same number of chest drops, regardless of the speed at which you travel. Bottom line: you'll be a lot wetter if you walk.

But wait, you say. What about those pesky aerodynamic effects? The requisite math is a bit daunting, but never fear. Heedless of his delicate health or his already low reputation with the neighbors, your columnist spent a recent rainy Saturday running down the street like an idiot brandishing pieces of red construction paper clipped to cardboard, the better to snag and count raindrops. Methodology: three trials of two runs each over a fixed distance, once running, once walking. Winds: calm. Angle of attack of paper relative to ground: 45 degrees. Results:

Trial #1. Running, 15 seconds to run course; 213 drops. Walking, 40 seconds; couldn't count drops, paper soaked. Shortened course.

Trial #2. Running, 7 seconds; 131 drops. Walking, 20 seconds; 216 drops.

Trial #3. Running, 7 seconds; 147 drops. Walking, 17 seconds; 221 drops.

So there you are. The differences are larger than the numbers suggest because many drops on the "walking" papers dried before I could count them. My guess is that the number of drops is exactly proportional. If you're out twice as long, you get twice as wet.

One obvious caveat. If enough rain falls on you, whether because of the intensity of the rainfall or the distance you have to travel, eventually you'll be thoroughly soaked. After that it doesn't matter whether you run or walk; you're as wet as you're going to get. So the preceding applies only to relatively short sprints through less-than-torrential downpours. Sorry, no wallet charts. My advice: always run--if nothing else you could use the exercise.

YOU CAN FOOL SOME OF THE PEOPLE SOME OF THE TIME ...

Dear Cecil:

I enjoyed your column about whether we get less wet running or walking in the rain. I was particularly impressed with your initiative in collecting data. Regrettably, some tests of statistical significance I performed on the data you supplied seem to poop the party: [two pages of incomprehensible mathematical symbols follow]. I know your data look convincing to the untrained eye, but a statistician they smack of the problem of small numbers. Next time invest in a few extra sheets of construction paper and improve your significance level. --Catherine Hagen, Montreal

Cecil replies:

Your argument, Catherine, is that two trials isn't a large enough sample to base any firm conclusions on. Cecil knows this. Cecil also knows that if he doesn't get his column in on time, a chancy proposition under the best of circumstances, he may eventually be informed the time has come for him to get a real job. So he takes certain shortcuts. But your point is well taken. Next time I need somebody to dash through the drink a few dozen times, I'll give you a call.

CECIL'S FINDINGS CONFIRMED!

Thomas Peterson and Trevor Wallis of the National Climatic Data Center, writing in the meteorological journal Weather, also tackled the running vs. walking controversy. "We decided to deal with this with scientific rigor. We did an experiment," Peterson was quoted as saying in Health magazine.

The magazine goes on to describe the experiment: "One rainy day the two men donned identical sweat suits and hats, which they'd weighed before the test. For added accuracy, they wore plastic garbage bags underneath the sweat suits to keep their underclothes from wicking away any water. They then set out through the downpour on a 100-meter course. Wallas ran; Peterson walked.

"When they finished, the men weighed their clothes again to find out how much water they'd soaked up. Peterson's had absorbed about seven and half ounces, while Wallis's sopped up only four and a half."

In short, running will keep you drier than walking. Told ya.

— Cecil Adams
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Re: Rain question

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:40 pm

Mythbusters had to re-visit this question. The second time they got wetter walking than they did running. (They used "rent-a-storm" the first time, the second was in a natural rainfall.)
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Re: Rain question

Post by Rum » Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:42 pm

..and here was me thinking I had had an original thought. There's a whole fucking industry out there! :?

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Re: Rain question

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:44 pm

Rum wrote:..and here was me thinking I had had an original thought. There's a whole fucking industry out there! :?
Yep. Some uni prof did a study that Adam and Jamie referenced. He scolded them about their first results. :smug:
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Re: Rain question

Post by Twiglet » Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:45 pm

Rum wrote:The running/angle/wind issue is a red herring!

Assume then a square piece of material moving along the ground and parallel to is for the sake of clarity. Do more rain drops hit it going faster or slower between to points?
It's a 3D problem, you can't "assume a square" as a 2D shape then compare it with a human.

Mathematically, you would resolve the rain into verticle horizontal components.

If A is the surface area from above, B the frontal surface area,then the rain collected on the frontal surface is
Front = Axdistance to be travelledxdensity of rain in perpendicular to the direction of travel... which is time independent.

From above it is Bxtimexcontant (determined by flow rate) - and it is this which causes the slow journey to be wetter.

Changing the angle of the body changes the effective surface area the rain "sees" . Using your original analogy Rum, if you imagine a thin rectangle stood upright and the rain falling straight down - will it collect more water if it stands on its edge, or if it rests flat to the ground. There is an obvious difference in 3D.

Nonetheless the original point remains - the longer you stay out in the rain, the wetter you will become.


-----------

Basically, if the rain is coming down at an angle, your interests are well served by adopting a walking speed that means that relative to you - the rain is falling flat down on your head (i.e. you are walking in the direction the wind is blowing, at the same speed the rain is moving at - this means the rain will only wet your head and shoulders, rather than your chest). That is balanced by how long you have to stay out in the rain in total.

The maths for this actually becomes complicated, but the principle is simple and easy to visualise.

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Re: Rain question

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:17 am

I actually investigated this question during my degree, in a module on mathematical modelling.

Basically, there is no simple answer. It depends a lot on the angle of the rain (ie. the wind direction/strength) and there is an optimum walking/running speed for any given set of conditions.

I can't remember the exact process we went through, but it started off as a very simple model and ended up as differential equations in multiple variables and iterative optimisation. The main point of the exercise being developing the skills involved in developing a mathematical model rather than actually solving the problem.
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