Bitcoin & the crypto-currency revolution. (get some here).

[Collector1337]

My favorite part of bitcoins is the anonymity. You'd be surprised at the selection of... um... "unique" items you can't just buy off the normal internet.

[Skepticus]

If you think anybody is getting a free lunch, then you either don't understand bitcoin, don't understand basic economics, or both.

Or you do understand the possibilities of speculative trading in an entirely unregulated and unprotected market.

If you think that anybody with the power to regulate or 'protect' a market, will be doing so for your benefit, it's definitely the economics (and politics) you don't understand. See video above: Money As Debt.

Trust me, I'm well aware of how our money system works and many of the major problems with it. As far as I can see bitcoin doesn't solve any of them and, like any alternative currency, adds a handful of extra ones. Oh, unless because of a Libertarian/Austrian School bent you believe taxation of hoarded wealth to be a problem.

Well, I guess we're at an impasse then, because you don't explain your yourself and I don't read minds.

[Skepticus]

My favorite part of bitcoins is the anonymity. You'd be surprised at the selection of... um... "unique" items you can't just buy off the normal internet.

Collector, URADV8

[JimC]

My favorite part of bitcoins is the anonymity. You'd be surprised at the selection of... um... "unique" items you can't just buy off the normal internet.

Yeah, yeah, more weapons of various sorts to masturbate over...

[Skepticus]

To ALL

My intention in starting this thread was to offer help and advice to anybody interested in using bitcoin or wanting to learn more. I am not interested in having protracted debates about the efficacy or viability of bitcoin. Those who dont wish to use it or learn about it, may choose to do so (or not do so) without derailing this thread with uninformed and futile criticisms of bitcoin. I'm a bitcoin enthusiast and this is a PRO bitcoin thread. If you want to debate about the viability or legality of bitcoin etc. that's fine but if you wouldn't mind, please start another thread elsewhere.

Thanks Skep.

To skepticus.

Not a chance, this is ratz,. People say what they like, where they like, when they like (within FUA. (which are "more of a guideline - G. Rush")) That's why they're here.

So good luck and keep trying, the entertainment value is worth a couple of bitcoins. Just mind the bubble.

It's worth about $273? Good. Seeing that I have offered to pay 0.1 BTC to the ten best contributions to this thread and match that that with 1 BTC for the ratz foundation, were right on track.

Thanks for the advice.

[mistermack]

List of Bitcoin thefts and scams
Since this hasn't been answered, commented on or refuted, I thought it was worth posting it again. And again.

And here is the bit about the '' Pirate default ''

Pirate default
It's over. I personally will offer sympathy to those who may have lost.

I'm at odds about what to do about this. On one side, the implications are clear: Pirate@40 willingly scammed hundreds off their money, which best estimates put at around 500000 BTC. Such an amount, making up more than 5% of all BTC in circulation, in unprecedented in the history of Bitcoin. It is my duty to include it in this list, as not doing so would be dishonest. However, by doing so, the complexity of this situation requires restructuring at the least.

I am looking for community input into this issue. There are missing data which I deem important, and I welcome any estimates for the values I list below.
Total BTC defaulted on
Total investors directly with Pirate
Total investors exposed through defaulting passthroughs
Total investors exposed through all passthroughs, including ones that compensated partially or fully

There are also semantical issues. For example, the list of victims is large and diverse; some were affected in different ways than others. Certain passthrough owners have repaid in Pirate's name in full or in part (notme). The honest passthrough owners (to use the term to describe veracity, to withhold it not to imply malevolence) have without doubt been hurt, but then again many would have profited greatly from the 7% while offered.

I ask for input on handling of semantics. The list below will provide a general overview of decisions that need to be made.

BS&T has paid interest. Should this amount be included in the amount scammed, or excluded?
People have made bets. Should reference to this be included?
Passthrough owners have been hurt in different manners. To what degree should this be highlighted?

Any other help in this complex issue, I would appreciate greatly. I also would like to take this time to, once again, offer heartfelt condolences to all who have suffered.

[Azathoth]

Want to post a list of normal cash thefts and scams too? The only point you are making is that some people are stupid and get parted from their valuables rather easily.

[mistermack]

Want to post a list of normal cash thefts and scams too? The only point you are making is that some people are stupid and get parted from their valuables rather easily.

That was more than pinching a few quid from your credit card :

which best estimates put at around 500000 BTC. Such an amount, making up more than 5% of all BTC in circulation, in unprecedented in the history of Bitcoin.

[Azathoth]

Can you say enron?

[mistermack]

Can you say enron?

What I can say is that you'd have to be pretty stupid to buy Enron shares, AFTER the scam had been exposed.
But that's what we are being urged to do here.

What's keeping the price of bitcoins up at the moment, is the volume that were traded at about 266 dollars.
Now that they are about half that price, a lot of people will sit on them, hoping that they'll go up again, so that they can cash out without a loss. That means that supply will be restricted now for quite some time.

But potential buyers will also be aware of the previous bursting of the 266 dollar bubble, so there should be a stalemate for some considerable time now, till people accept that they've made a loss and sell, or till other people forget the losses that people made previously, and start buying again.

[Azathoth]

No what you are suggesting is akin to saying that you would be stupid to buy gold after a large amount of gold was stolen. Things of value get stolen. If things dont have value nobody wants to steal them

[Thinking Aloud]

The comparisons made earlier between gold and BC are interesting. I've not watched any of the recommended videos, and don't have time, so if they answer my question I apologise for asking it here.

Gold is a substance that actually has a use in the real world, plus some very appealing chemical properties - particularly its stability, conductivity, malleability, and indeed appearance. It's the desire for this substance that gives it its initial value, and makes it worth acquiring. Even if gold somehow lost its financial value through some banking upset, it would still be useful in its own right, and would still be sought after because of its physical properties.

BC has the scarcity of gold, but does it have any other properties that give it intrinsic value, even if its monetary value reduces to nearly zero for whatever reason? Do the BCs themselves, through virtue of the mining or some other process, hold some property (whatever it is the mining machines have to do to make them) that has value in the real world?

In other words, if I buy a bar of gold, I still have a bar of gold even if it's worthless; if I acquire BC and it becomes worthless, what do I have? Or am I barking up the wrong analogy, because the real comparison of BC is with, say, paper money, which is also nearly useless if its value vanishes?

[Azathoth]

OK let me change out gold for diamonds then. Industrial grade diamonds are worth fuck all. The big shiny ones have no use other than being big and shiny

[mistermack]

No what you are suggesting is akin to saying that you would be stupid to buy gold after a large amount of gold was stolen. Things of value get stolen. If things dont have value nobody wants to steal them

No, that's bollocks.
You can sell gold anywhere. People put money in your hand, and you put the gold in their hand. I can pay by credit card, and I'm protected.
It's a question of the security of the systems on offer. Five percent of all bitcoins in one scam indicates a basic insecurity in the system.

[JimC]

OK let me change out gold for diamonds then. Industrial grade diamonds are worth fuck all. The big shiny ones have no use other than being big and shiny

Tell that to a fairly high proportion of hominids with 2 X chromosomes...