A Mars Colony in Our Lifetimes?

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Cormac
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Re: A Mars Colony in Our Lifetimes?

Post by Cormac » Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:49 pm

mistermack wrote:I'm guessing here, but I think that Iron would be last on the list of early space materials.
Iron needs very heavy machinery to work it. And needs to be very hot.
In space that means you would need huge amounts of Iron, to start working iron.
And a hell of a lot of insulation, to keep the heat in at minus 270 deg.

Aluminium would be better I think. But what the moon is like for mining metals, I don't have a clue.

I don't think there is much of an energy cost for taking off from the moon though.
You only have to compare what fuel the apollo astronauts needed to get off the Earth, to what they needed to get off the Moon. There is simply no comparison.

I think the curve of energy-needed vs gravity-strength must be an ever increasing exponetial one, for there to be such a difference.

The escape velocity of the Earth is 11.2 km/sec
The escape velocity of the Moon is 2.4 km/sec

But the Earth figure ignores the drag of the air. So the difference is even greater.
And most of the fuel is needed to lift and accelerate the fuel's own weight.
So the lower the gravity, the lower is that factor.

You could probably fire raw materials off the moon, with a gun, towards an orbiting space station, for very little energy cost, as you wouldn't be lifting the fuel.

I consider this to be simply an interesting speculation - how could we engineer our way around all the "impossibilities". It isn't like I'm ever likely to get up in the morning and kick off an interplanetary mining and transport company!

But anyway:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allende_meteorite includes aluminium.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allende_meteorite

The size of the machines is surely dependent on the quantity of iron to be worked, isn't it?

We wouldn't necessarily mine the moon. We could divert small meteroids to the moon, and extract directly from those. This would remove the need to mine.

Of course - the question then arises about the number of meteoroids within reach, and within that group, how many have the materials we'd need. (How many would be like the Allende meteorite?


Fuel could be sourced also from meteoroids, as a fair proportion of them contain water. (Which could be split using electricity from solar panels, to create hydrogen and oxygen).

The escape velocity from the moon, and the fact that it is significantly easier to launch from there is the reason I've included it in the first place.
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Re: A Mars Colony in Our Lifetimes?

Post by Pappa » Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:03 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:The moon should have a fair bit of meteoric iron lying around. It wouldn't have corroded.
Meteoritic iron's not suitable for many things. IIRC, it usually contains high levels of nickel and sulphur.
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Re: A Mars Colony in Our Lifetimes?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:04 pm

Pappa wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:The moon should have a fair bit of meteoric iron lying around. It wouldn't have corroded.
Meteoritic iron's not suitable for many things. IIRC, it usually contains high levels of nickel and sulphur.
So use it for the things it is suitable for.
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Re: A Mars Colony in Our Lifetimes?

Post by Cormac » Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:11 pm

Pappa wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:The moon should have a fair bit of meteoric iron lying around. It wouldn't have corroded.
Meteoritic iron's not suitable for many things. IIRC, it usually contains high levels of nickel and sulphur.
I presume there is a process by which these impurities could be removed?
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Re: A Mars Colony in Our Lifetimes?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:12 pm

Cormac wrote:
Pappa wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:The moon should have a fair bit of meteoric iron lying around. It wouldn't have corroded.
Meteoritic iron's not suitable for many things. IIRC, it usually contains high levels of nickel and sulphur.
I presume there is a process by which these impurities could be removed?
Removed and used elsewhere?
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Re: A Mars Colony in Our Lifetimes?

Post by Cormac » Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:24 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Cormac wrote:
Pappa wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:The moon should have a fair bit of meteoric iron lying around. It wouldn't have corroded.
Meteoritic iron's not suitable for many things. IIRC, it usually contains high levels of nickel and sulphur.
I presume there is a process by which these impurities could be removed?
Removed and used elsewhere?
Presumably. :)
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Re: A Mars Colony in Our Lifetimes?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:27 pm

Agreed then. Every single thing we can find in situ would be worth a lot to the settlers.
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Re: A Mars Colony in Our Lifetimes?

Post by Blind groper » Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:21 pm

There was an article a little while back in New Scientist about mining asteroids. They said that a 20 km diameter asteroid would contain an estimated $US 80 trillion plus of minable minerals. This includes a lot of stuff that is rare on Earth, like Platinum and other rare metals. Certainly some high power brains are taking the prospect very seriously, especially since there are candidate asteroids with orbits that pass quite close to the Earth.
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Re: A Mars Colony in Our Lifetimes?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:33 pm

Loki needs iridium to open the portal. Maybe we could get him to chip in some serious start-up capital.
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Re: A Mars Colony in Our Lifetimes?

Post by Cormac » Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:09 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Loki needs iridium to open the portal. Maybe we could get him to chip in some serious start-up capital.

:)
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Re: A Mars Colony in Our Lifetimes?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:40 pm

Cormac wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Loki needs iridium to open the portal. Maybe we could get him to chip in some serious start-up capital.

:)
What's the Euro/Asgardian exchange look like right now?
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Re: A Mars Colony in Our Lifetimes?

Post by Cormac » Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:50 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Cormac wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Loki needs iridium to open the portal. Maybe we could get him to chip in some serious start-up capital.

:)
What's the Euro/Asgardian exchange look like right now?
Well, with the current crisis, the Euro is depressed, which might make investment an attractive option for Loki - he'd get a lot of bang for his Asgardian buck.
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Re: A Mars Colony in Our Lifetimes?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:53 pm

Cormac wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Cormac wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Loki needs iridium to open the portal. Maybe we could get him to chip in some serious start-up capital.

:)
What's the Euro/Asgardian exchange look like right now?
Well, with the current crisis, the Euro is depressed, which might make investment an attractive option for Loki - he'd get a lot of bang for his Asgardian buck.
I think gold prices would be depressed on Asgard.
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Re: A Mars Colony in Our Lifetimes?

Post by Cormac » Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:00 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Cormac wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Cormac wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Loki needs iridium to open the portal. Maybe we could get him to chip in some serious start-up capital.

:)
What's the Euro/Asgardian exchange look like right now?
Well, with the current crisis, the Euro is depressed, which might make investment an attractive option for Loki - he'd get a lot of bang for his Asgardian buck.
I think gold prices would be depressed on Asgard.
An opportunity for arbitrage? Surely this imbalance in the markets can't last? The market is efficient after all - all the players make informed and rational decisions*!













*Don't they? :ask:
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Re: A Mars Colony in Our Lifetimes?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:30 pm

"When the streets are paved with gold, gold is worth as much as cobblestones."
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