"Alt-left" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

[Sean Hayden]

nonviolent direct action meant to keep the white nationalists from entering

Please tell me they weren't allowed to enter the park.

[JimC]

nonviolent direct action meant to keep the white nationalists from entering the park to their hate rally.

Were they not allowed to enter that park? If not, then did the police keep them from entering?

This is the nub of the argument here in many threads.

On the one hand, there is the public good of allowing any given group to hold a public rally, and a feeling that attempting to prevent such events is anti-freedom.

On the other hand, neo-nazis and racists who openly espouse their very nasty ideology need to be opposed.

When discussing this, neither of these points of view can be ignored. I guess some people are going to say that one or other is the stronger argument, and let it over-rule the other...

[Sean Hayden]

But in one instance "nonviolent direct action" might make sense, and in the other it appears to be some words strung together to avoid saying you took the law into your own hands, and that is not protest -usually. I have argued otherwise elsewhere though so...

[Jason]

On the other hand, neo-nazis and racists who openly espouse their very nasty ideology need to be opposed.

Their ideas need to be opposed, not their espousing them. This is done by engaging them, allowing them a voice in the debate, and countering that ideology in the arena of words like a big boy. Violent opposition to their right of free assembly is antithetical to the very core of a free and democratic society.

[pErvinalia]

I've always found Nazis to be amenable to a good counter-argument.

[Hermit]

I've always found Nazis to be amenable to a good counter-argument.

I always suspected you were a weirdo. Now I know.

So who else has said they always found Nazis to be amenable to a good counter-argument?

[pErvinalia]

Well Siva seems to think that. Unless he thinks presenting counter-arguments that have no effect is a worthy past time.

[Hermit]

Well Siva seems to think that. Unless he thinks presenting counter-arguments that have no effect is a worthy past time.

His post can be read that way, but opposing and countering their ideas does not necessarily mean trying to change their mind. The purpose can simply be to make sure others will see them for the shit they are.

[pErvinalia]

He specifically said "engaging them". If it was only about others then that point wouldn't make sense.

[Hermit]

He specifically said "engaging them". If it was only about others then that point wouldn't make sense.

Yeah, engage them like those debates between presidential candidates. Are you going to tell me they are trying to convince each other of the errors of their ways next?

[pErvinalia]

In English?

[pErvinalia]

You said that he could mean the aim is for others to see the error in the ways of the alt-right. If it was just about other people, and not the alt-right, then why specifically engage the alt-right?

[JimC]

Their ideas are in the public meme marketplace. There needs to be lots of counter-memes in that same public marketplace...

[pErvinalia]

Sure. That's engaging their ideas. Siva specifically said to engage them themselves.

[Svartalf]

I've always found Nazis to be amenable to a good counter-argument.

preferably a 11.43 mm 115 grain one?