Nice theory, but I have questions.

[Horwood Beer-Master]

There are indeed "just" birds, and birds are "just" dinosaurs.

People keep making this error, but I'm not going to quit getting arsey about it.

Good!

Back to my point about cynodonts. If we insist that birds are dinosaurs, then we should insist that humans are cynodonts...

We are. I've already answered that.

...I think it better to say birds evolved from dinosaurs, specifically therapods...

You might just as well say that stegosaurs "evolved from dinosaurs", or that brachiosaurs "evolved from dinosaurs", or indeed that penguins "evolved from birds".

It's about consistancy, either something is a dinosaur or it isn't. The phrase "birds aren't dinosaurs" is plainly scientifically incorrect, just as much as the phrases "stegosaurs aren't dinosaurs" or "penguins aren't birds" would be.

So if the phrase "birds aren't dinosaurs" is clearly false, than the phrase "birds are dinosaurs" must be true.


So to conclude - birds are dinosaurs.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

So to conclude - birds are dinosaurs.

Birds are birds. They came from dinosaurs.

[Horwood Beer-Master]

So to conclude - birds are dinosaurs.

Birds are birds. They came from dinosaurs.

Did stegosaurs "come from dinosaurs"? Did horses "come from" equids? Did cats "come from" mammals? Did iguanas "come from" lizards?..

[Gawdzilla Sama]

So to conclude - birds are dinosaurs.

Birds are birds. They came from dinosaurs.

Did stegosaurs "come from dinosaurs"? Did horses "come from" equids? Did cats "come from" mammals? Did iguanas "come from" lizards?..

Actually, yes, they did.

[Horwood Beer-Master]

So to conclude - birds are dinosaurs.

Birds are birds. They came from dinosaurs.

Did stegosaurs "come from dinosaurs"? Did horses "come from" equids? Did cats "come from" mammals? Did iguanas "come from" lizards?..

Actually, yes, they did.

So stegosaurs are not dinosaurs either then. Right?

[Clinton Huxley]

Hey, this is like an actual debate! On Rationalia!

[Horwood Beer-Master]

Hey, this is like an actual debate! On Rationalia!

And I'm winning!

[Clinton Huxley]

Hey, this is like an actual debate! On Rationalia!

And I'm winning!

Ok, now this is going to get interesting.......

[Horwood Beer-Master]

Hey, this is like an actual debate! On Rationalia!

And I'm winning!

Ok, now this is going to get interesting.......

Of course I'm winning, I'm being consistent. Whereas Gawd is yet to explain his inconsistencies.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

So to conclude - birds are dinosaurs.

Birds are birds. They came from dinosaurs.

Did stegosaurs "come from dinosaurs"? Did horses "come from" equids? Did cats "come from" mammals? Did iguanas "come from" lizards?..

Actually, yes, they did.

So stegosaurs are not dinosaurs either then. Right?

No, they came from previous types of animals, the most recent of which were dinosaurs.

[Horwood Beer-Master]

...So stegosaurs are not dinosaurs either then. Right?

No, they came from previous types of animals, the most recent of which were dinosaurs.

So to conclude - nothing is a dinosaur then?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

...So stegosaurs are not dinosaurs either then. Right?

No, they came from previous types of animals, the most recent of which were dinosaurs.

So to conclude - nothing is a dinosaur then?

Nothing is currently a dinosaur. Evolution has moved on.

[GeneticJen]

The Stegosauria are dinosaurs. Birds are dinosaurs. It's only because birds happen to be the only surving dinosaurs that we view them as being something different. If they had gone extinct too, along with the other dinosaurs, would you still say they aren't dinosaurs?

It's as simple as this: you are using the term "dinosaur" in a paraphyletic sense.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The Stegosauria are dinosaurs. Birds are dinosaurs. It's only because birds happen to be the only surving dinosaurs that view them as being something different. If they had gone extinct too, along with the other dinosaurs, would you still say they aren't dinosaurs?

It's as simple as this: you are using the term "dinosaur" in a paraphyletic sense.

So, then, a Chihuahua is a Canis lupus baileyi. Nothing I can say about that, it there.

[GeneticJen]

...So stegosaurs are not dinosaurs either then. Right?

No, they came from previous types of animals, the most recent of which were dinosaurs.

So to conclude - nothing is a dinosaur then?

Nothing is currently a dinosaur. Evolution has moved on.

We've evolved, so are we no longer mammals?

Some info for the layperson (short, not very detailed):

http://www.miketaylor.org.uk/dino/FAQ/s ... /index.htm