Voyager Exiting the Solar System

[Coito ergo sum]

Even Kepler in 1610 and Jules Verne in the 1880s knew the importance:

"As soon as somebody demonstrates the art of flying, settlers from our species of man will not be lacking [on the moon and Jupiter]... Given ships or sails adapted to the breezes of heaven, there will be those who will not shrink from even that vast expanse."
Johannes Kepler, letter to Galileo, 1610

"In spite of the opinions of certain narrow-minded people, who would shut up the human race upon this globe, as within some magic circle which it must never outstep, we shall one day travel to the moon, the planets, and the stars, with the same facility, rapidity, and certainty as we now make the voyage from Liverpool to New York."
Jules Verne, From the Earth to the Moon, 1865

And, Arthur C. Clarke 60 years ago...

"There is no way back into the past; the choice, as Wells once said, is the universe--or nothing. Though men and civilizations may yearn for rest, for the dream of the lotus-eaters, that is a desire that merges imperceptibly into death. The challenge of the great spaces between the worlds is a stupendous one; but if we fail to meet it, the story of our race will be drawing to its close."
Arthur C. Clarke, Interplanetary Flight, 1950

So, Deep Sea Isopod -- I have answered your question. Now what would you say to the likes of Arthur C. Clark, Jules Verne, Carl Sagan, Isaac Asimov, Robert Heinlen, Freeman Dyson, who have all championed the notion that our future lies in space, or humanity's collective grave lies on Earth - in the not too distant future?

[Clinton Huxley]

Christ, who pressed Cogito's "space button"? We'll not hear the end of this now..,

[stripes4]

I can't remember the figure but the Voyagers should enter some other star systems in a few thousand years (or tens of thousands?). Awesome. We'll be extinct by then.

Speak for yourselves.

[Clinton Huxley]

Cog, you should check out Undercover Elephants "Deep Green Resistance" thread over at Ratskep. I think you two would get on like a.... Monkey and some Ebola

[Coito ergo sum]

Christ, who pressed Cogito's "space button"? We'll not hear the end of this now..,

LOL -- yep...

Well, for some reason, I always fall into the same trap. I am fully aware that most people out there think the space program is a waste of money. For some reason, it's the first thing on on many folks mind to cut and spend that allocated money elsewhere. Yet, those same folks almost never suggest that other funds be spent elsewhere....I mean - I didn't even get into the "turtle crossings, " and the $600 million in coupons the US gov't printed so that people wouldn't have to pay for their own HDTV converter boxes...plus the billions of dollars spent by the US government in effectuating a mandatory conversion from television to HDTV, for no necessary purpose, which ultimately still hasn't even taken place!

For some reason, space is posed as an either/or choice - we either have to choose to go to space and forego the problems on Earth, or we have to spend all the space money on Earth. Some of these folks never consider that we can do both, and in fact must do both.

Arthur Clarke and Isaac Asimov were dead on right - we can't go back. It's too late. The die is cast. It's the universe, or nothing.

[Coito ergo sum]

Cog, you should check out Undercover Elephants "Deep Green Resistance" thread over at Ratskep. I think you two would get on like a.... Monkey and some Ebola

I am too attached to rationalia...I couldn't commit foradultery....

[Clinton Huxley]

Cog, you should check out Undercover Elephants "Deep Green Resistance" thread over at Ratskep. I think you two would get on like a.... Monkey and some Ebola

I am too attached to rationalia...I couldn't commit foradultery....

Probably just as well for your blood pressure.

[Coito ergo sum]

Cog, you should check out Undercover Elephants "Deep Green Resistance" thread over at Ratskep. I think you two would get on like a.... Monkey and some Ebola

I am too attached to rationalia...I couldn't commit foradultery....

Probably just as well for your blood pressure.

Fair point...

...This is one issue that piques my interest, so to speak, mainly because I am in such a small minority - opposed by the vast majority of those on the left and on the right, and in the middle...and, I can't fathom how that great mass of people can hold the position they do. This is one issue that I see as so blatantly obvious, and so apolitical, that it just boggles my mind that anyone wouldn't be in favor of a bigger space program....yet, I'm the one in the minority...and I am opposed by people who, generally speaking, claim to be rationalists and pro-science folks, yet, when it comes to space exploration, they draw the line.

It's sort of the same reason I'm so fascinated by religion. I am among that tiny minority of folks who hold that it's all bollocks and there are no gods. Yet, 80-90% of the folks out there oppose me on that, and I simply can't see how they can.. it's along those lines...

[Deep Sea Isopod]

So, Deep Sea Isopod -- I have answered your question. Now what would you say to the likes of Arthur C. Clark, Jules Verne, Carl Sagan, Isaac Asimov, Robert Heinlen, Freeman Dyson, who have all championed the notion that our future lies in space, or humanity's collective grave lies on Earth - in the not too distant future?

It's not for me. This topic is bound to come up elsewhere, where I know full well someone is going to say it's a waste of money.
Thanks for the answer, anyway.

[Clinton Huxley]

Argument from authority logical fallacy. Space is rubbish.

[Deep Sea Isopod]

Well, for some reason, I always fall into the same trap. I am fully aware that most people out there think the space program is a waste of money.

Kinda like those who think F1 racing is a waste of money. And yet they forget where the technology came from to make their own car safer and more fuel efficient.

[Coito ergo sum]

Argument from authority logical fallacy. Space is rubbish.

No no....I haven't argued from authority....I've argued that those authorities have good arguments....that's quite different. It's what they say that matters, not who said it, in terms of the arguments made by them.

The fact that the consensus among really smart people who who know a lot about science, cosmology, etc., seems to be that going off-planet is a necessity, however, is much the same as suggesting there is a scientific consensus relative to climate change. It isn't an argument in and of itself, but the fact that experts in a field draw particular conclusions suggest that those conclusions are warranted by the science.

[Coito ergo sum]

So, Deep Sea Isopod -- I have answered your question. Now what would you say to the likes of Arthur C. Clark, Jules Verne, Carl Sagan, Isaac Asimov, Robert Heinlen, Freeman Dyson, who have all championed the notion that our future lies in space, or humanity's collective grave lies on Earth - in the not too distant future?

It's not for me. This topic is bound to come up elsewhere, where I know full well someone is going to say it's a waste of money.
Thanks for the answer, anyway.

Gotcha...

...I've had this discussion with liberals and conservatives - the general public thinks it's a waste of money. What manned space flight needs is a really awesome PR campaign. Somehow, we managed to take the marvel of humans walking on the flippin' Moon, and make it mundane and boring. How did that happen?

[cowiz]

"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space."

DA

[stripes4]

"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space."

DA

Is it as big as my arse, or not?