Science, sex, brains and gender

[JOZeldenrust]

I'm going to listen to it now.

On another forum, someone (bigoted racist) has said that because there are no eminent black scientist, (So I've pointed out Neil deGrass Tyson to him) this somehow proves their brains are smaller, so as it's a fact that female brain is smaller than the male's, this means black females have the brain the size of a dog.

Now, I'm waiting for him to support his claim of a smaller female brain. So, has anyone got a link/paper I can provide to shut this twat up?

Nope, but I can provide a counterexample: Mahzarin Banaji, who made great contributions to methodology in the social sciences by coming up with questionaires that compensate for participants' tendency to give politically correct answers, and who is a major contributor to project implicit.

[Deep Sea Isopod]

And I've just found this: http://www.scienceupdate.com/spotlights ... erican.php

[GreyICE]

I'm going to listen to it now.

On another forum, someone (bigoted racist) has said that because there are no eminent black scientist, (So I've pointed out Neil deGrass Tyson to him) this somehow proves their brains are smaller, so as it's a fact that female brain is smaller than the male's, this means black females have the brain the size of a dog.

Now, I'm waiting for him to support his claim of a smaller female brain. So, has anyone got a link/paper I can provide to shut this twat up?

George Washington Carver was a great scientist and he was born before slavery was abolished!

Here's two more (including a black woman, the worst of all possible worlds):
http://www.infoplease.com/biography/patricia-bath.html
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0767222.html

[Animavore]

What!? No mention of Pinker, Samsa?

[Deep Sea Isopod]

The bigotry is strong in this one. It's response to the list of African-American scientists:

And they need their own website

(me)It's only a page from a website, bringing awareness that African-Americans can be scientists when given the opportunity.

At least half of those women are half caste.

(me)So, that's half of them with bigger brains than you, and the other half who......well, have bigger brains than you.

You can give me list after list of (proper) coloureds,male or female

(me)And you'd still refuse to see past your bigotry.

- as anomolies do exist in nature.

(me)Anomalies that a black woman, who has the brain the size of a dog, (your words, not mine) is cleverer than someone who tries to insult her?

The FACT remains. Blacks are not as intelligent as whites. It's all there in the figures.

(me)What is there in the figures, is evidence of a past where blacks were regarded as inferior and denied an education.

Now go have a walk around a hospital. How many "coloured" staff members do you see working there? Nurses, doctors....?

P.S. Sorry to "jack" your thread, Charlou!

[Deep Sea Isopod]

I'm going to listen to it now.

On another forum, someone (bigoted racist) has said that because there are no eminent black scientist, (So I've pointed out Neil deGrass Tyson to him) this somehow proves their brains are smaller, so as it's a fact that female brain is smaller than the male's, this means black females have the brain the size of a dog.

Now, I'm waiting for him to support his claim of a smaller female brain. So, has anyone got a link/paper I can provide to shut this twat up?

George Washington Carver was a great scientist and he was born before slavery was abolished!

Here's two more (including a black woman, the worst of all possible worlds):
http://www.infoplease.com/biography/patricia-bath.html
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0767222.html

I don't think names is gonna do it.
I need something on human brain evolution. (I do think he's an evolutionist )

[Mr.Samsa]

I couldn't agree more on your stance on Louann Brizendine, you'd expect more from somebody with such a CV and such credentials!

Her qualifications are actually in psychiatry, which isn't that useful for understanding brain differences or comprehending scientific research - this probably explains her amazing skill of being so wrong all the time. She does have an undergraduate degree in neurobiology, which would undoubtedly be useful on a minimal level, but it's nowhere near the level of education she needs to be able to make the claims she does.

On another forum, someone (bigoted racist) has said that because there are no eminent black scientist, (So I've pointed out Neil deGrass Tyson to him) this somehow proves their brains are smaller, so as it's a fact that female brain is smaller than the male's, this means black females have the brain the size of a dog.

Now, I'm waiting for him to support his claim of a smaller female brain. So, has anyone got a link/paper I can provide to shut this twat up?

This language log post deals with some claimed brain differences between males and females: How big is your crockus?

I'm not sure about the claims of "African" brains, but it is true that even after correction for height, male brains are generally bigger than female brains. What does this mean for intelligence? Not a fuck of a lot really.

The idea that intelligence can be predicted from a brain-to-body-mass ratio (or an encephalisation quotient) is shaky at best. The correlation is mostly a product of various other confounding variables; for example, cortical folds. Steven Novella discusses the issue a bit here: Brain Size and Intelligence.

Here is the American Psychological Association's summary of current findings in intelligence: Setting the Record Straight: What is Known and Unknown about intelligence. There are no differences in gender IQ scores, and ethic measures are difficult to gauge with nothing conclusive currently known, although it's strongly suspected that all the differences we find are the result of other variables; e.g. higher rates of poverty in specific demographics.

What!? No mention of Pinker, Samsa?

Nah, I thought I'd just discuss credible scientists...

[camoguard]

I don't buy into gender differences because as a matter of respect there should be a gender neutral way to interact with people up until a person asks you to treat them more gender-centrically.

[GenesForLife]

I'm going to listen to it now.

On another forum, someone (bigoted racist) has said that because there are no eminent black scientist, (So I've pointed out Neil deGrass Tyson to him) this somehow proves their brains are smaller, so as it's a fact that female brain is smaller than the male's, this means black females have the brain the size of a dog.

Now, I'm waiting for him to support his claim of a smaller female brain. So, has anyone got a link/paper I can provide to shut this twat up?

Tell him that brain size doesn't mean one is smarter, elephant brains and blue whale brains are large. The measure that is usually used is Encephalization Quotient, which IIRC is brain volume/body mass or brain mass/body mass. If black women are smaller than black men their smaller brains, even if that assertion was true, would say nothing about their intelligence at all.

In other words, his assertion is fucked.

[Hermit]

brain size doesn't mean one is smarter, elephant brains and blue whale brains are large. The measure that is usually used is Encephalization Quotient, which IIRC is brain volume/body mass or brain mass/body mass. If black women are smaller than black men their smaller brains, even if that assertion was true, would say nothing about their intelligence at all.

If determining an IQ was merely a matter of brain size or the ratio between its size and body size, we wouldn't need IQ tests, would we?

IQs are so plastic, I don't think size has anything to do with them at all. Barring physical trauma or genetic defects IQs can be influenced by the cultural background of a person and enhanced with practice.

[charlou]

It's not the size of the wave, but the motion of the ocean ...

[camoguard]

Not as a moral determinant, but shouldn't more brain matter be attributed to some sort of advantage?

[GreyICE]

Not as a moral determinant, but shouldn't more brain matter be attributed to some sort of advantage?

If that was the case, whales would be a hell of a lot smarter than us.

[GenesForLife]

brain size doesn't mean one is smarter, elephant brains and blue whale brains are large. The measure that is usually used is Encephalization Quotient, which IIRC is brain volume/body mass or brain mass/body mass. If black women are smaller than black men their smaller brains, even if that assertion was true, would say nothing about their intelligence at all.

If determining an IQ was merely a matter of brain size or the ratio between its size and body size, we wouldn't need IQ tests, would we?

IQs are so plastic, I don't think size has anything to do with them at all. Barring physical trauma or genetic defects IQs can be influenced by the cultural background of a person and enhanced with practice.

Who said determining the IQ is merely a matter of brain size:body mass? I said it is commonly used as a measure across species as an indicator of intelligence, and in that respect brain size alone suggests bugger all, you cannot always get other organisms to be tested for IQ, y'know...

Even wikipedia has this to say...

a rough estimate of the possible intelligence of an organism. It can be defined as the ratio of the actual brain weight to the expected brain weight of a typical animal that size, EQ=w(brain)/Ew(brain)

A rough estimate, yeah?
I'm not sure the racist DSI was replying to can support his nonsense using a basic rough test even, let alone more precise ones like IQ. I made the point just to show that the idea of brain size alone as an indicator of intelligence means sweet fuck all.

Hope I've made it clear.

[GenesForLife]

Not as a moral determinant, but shouldn't more brain matter be attributed to some sort of advantage?

Depends on how much brain matter is dedicated to other tasks, this is one of the core principles underlying the use of Encephalization Quotient in estimating intelligence.
Also note that you could pack a lot of matter in a small space by folding, too, and the convoluted nature of the cerebral cortex is an example of this.