Mr Newton's Classroom

[harleyborgais]

To JOZeldenrust,

I am working on your suggestions. Here is another version of the paragraph for your consideration...


In this pattern each circle represents a field of Energy (or a wave of momentum that is spinning and radiating outward). They all over-lap and inter-connect, edges-to-centers (just like the Outer Valence Shells of the Iron atoms Below). The lines represent the basic forces of attraction and repulsion (such as for the atoms in solid matter below) which make matter rigid and stable. This aspect of Reality has been referred to as the male aspect (the Forces) and is also the more mathematical aspect of Existence. The curves (or Energy Fields) are considered the female aspect of reality because that is the more dynamic, flexible, and softer aspect of physical existence. The six pointed star is supposed to represent God, the Creator of our Universe. The Flaming Sword is what keeps us out of the Garden of Eden because it is the wave which encircles all the Dimensions (of which we see only three). It is the illusion of the solid particle which keeps us from seeing the higher, pre-existing Dimensions from which ours formed (just as monks have been telling us for centuries).



How's that?

[harleyborgais]

Factors for consideration (regarding the simplest form of intelligence)...

Examples of entities for consideration: Humans, Dogs, Mice, Fish, Earth Worms, Fruit Flies, Bacteria, DNA Molecules, Micro-tubules, Atoms, or Particles.

Paramecium and Bacteria are single celled. Here is a Paramecium...



Other factors to consider for determining if something is conscious are;

Emotion,
Intention,
Behavioral Changes in reaction to stimuli like;
-chemistry of environment,
-of the organism,
-response to impulses like;
-touch,
-electricity,
-light, -
heat,
etc.,
Capability of being alive or dead,
Capability of being awake or asleep,
loyalty to a mate,
alteration of ones environment to better suit ones-self,
and adaption of any such behavior in response to conditions.

Have I missed any important factors?

[JimC]

Oh dearie fucking me, the woo-meter just went off the scales and blew a fuse...

Oh well, it keeps them off the streets, I suppose...

[LucidFlight]

Have I missed any important factors?

Capability of responding to commands
Capability of chasing a ball
Capability of playing dead
Capability of licking own nuts
Capability of humping the couch

[harleyborgais]

I'd like to draw attention to a couple of those definitions:

-aware of one's surroundings, one's own thoughts and motivations, etc
-aware of and giving value or emphasis to a particular fact or phenomenon
-capable of or marked by thought, will, design, or perception

Sometimes I think the people posting ignorant and offensive remarks don't qualify under these conditions.

Thank You JOZeldenrust for CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM like: "he'd present his ideas in a way that could actually be understood, I'd be very interested in them."

That is what rational skeptics should do.

And thank you BrainMan for comments like:
"Pattern Induction is useful for scientific analysis because patterns do exist in nature at all levels of scale. Garret Lisi has revealed that maybe one complex pattern ties it all together. There are patterns for electron orbitals, patterns and structures in the universe. Patterns in biology, fractals and all the good books and breakthroughs written on this topic could fill a room.

Then I noticed that harley had made posts on astronomy and physics news articles which showed quite an depth knowledge and more to the point, very concise and integrated creative solutions to all kinds of gaps in our knowledge.
I have now changed my previously narrow view regarding the idea that a religious belief orientated person cannot be a theorist that has insight and possible breakthroughs about the natural world."

The Tetrad (or Toroidal Coil like Marko Rodins coil, the dual votex, or torus) form is that form which unites everything. It is represented in 2D as the male form The Star of David of Solomon and in the Female form as the Flower of Life (Or Egg, Seed, or Fruit of life). It is the octahedron, it is the dipole. It is the basic building block of all particles, atoms, cells, organic energy fields (auras or bioelectric fields), it is the field of every planet, star, galaxy, and probably the Universe as well. It is also the form of the Human Brain, and your mind as well (the dipole). This is the shape shown in the post above with the first real photo of atoms.

All of the Electron Orbital shapes come from this pattern, as well as the few basic forms of lattice structures (of atoms, forming crystals -Square, Rectangle, Hexagon, Pentagon, Triangle, or parallelogram).

This is that fractal pattern which forms all existence. This is what BrainMan and I have talked about.

I am still sure consciousness came before matter, but it may take a while for me to make this clear to any one who does not already possess the required knowledge.

[egbert]

To JOZeldenrust,

I am working on your suggestions. Here is another version of the paragraph for your consideration...

So...you got a Spirograph for Xmas?

[harleyborgais]

Very nice icon egbert.

That is a bat isn't it?


I love how creative these are here...

[Brain Man]

Sorry it has been so long since my last reply. I have been focusing on: http://www.rationalskepticism.org/pseud ... 2-180.html

There I have been trying to convince people that Black Holes are made of Dark Matter which is made of Coupled and Crystallized Neutron Masses (only formed during Supernova explosions of about 3x the Suns mass, and with spherical symmetry).

I will respond to the posts addressing me soon, but here is something to discuss for now...


Proving God Requires Defining Consciousness

Its the other way about. The more we prove or understand consciousness the more we find that the mechanisms of drive to impose god are a manifestation and projection of our own neural processes.

How are you going to prove god if you have a transcription of consciousness to its basic level. I can only presume when you mean God you are referring to a structure in the universe that resembles the structure of our brain or something like that. You got to remember i have no idea what somebody is talking about when they say the word "god" to me. They could be referring from anything as basic as a magnetic field or structure to the universe right up to the product of an advanced civilization that release an Ai system that managed to work on pure light.

Let me get this right does a God have to be a single person type entity that is invincible over time... and is not part of a civilization or did not come from one ? I am always baffled what people are talking out. I never get why its proposed. When i was a kid it was all to do with finding out we were mortal and/or a means our parents taught us to behave. If we had god watching us when nobody else was, we would behave better.

Harley you need to explain what a god is. Remember a lot of have no idea what somebody is talking about when they bring up this word.

Tell me what you think about this definition for Consciousness:

A System of Mutually Inductive (Resonating, Harmonizing) Energy Fields (like our Neurons in our Brains forming our Minds), which can change its own responses to external stimuli according to what is most beneficial to itself.

Except there is altruism and self sacrifice. also.,, and the cortex does not resonate or have any harmony in its EGG. Its just a battlefield of noise and competition for resources. The limbic system has more harmony and synchronization if you look at EEG spectra.

A Stable atom possesses the same properties and is therefore conscious, but not intelligent. Intelligence as we know it is a vastly greater level of complexity.

I don't think i could stretch to that level. Atom may have some electromagnetic aspects of consciousness as we discussed previously, but it cant do very much. You wouldn't worry about hurting an atom.

[Brain Man]

How's that?

Harley we have no idea if that nemescope is real or constructed by an inventor in debt to loan sharks. If he had made that thing, it would have been copied and every lab around the world by now.

[harleyborgais]

Good responses, it will be a little while before I respond to them.

[Brain Man]

It seems that any conscious entity can also exist in a state of unconscious. That is one key to figuring out the simplest conscious entity.
It also seems like intent is one thing exhibited only by conscious entities, but is exhibited by even the simplest conscious things (even particles sometimes).

Is it possible to be conscious, but not complex enough to be Self-Aware?
And what is the simplest conscious thing? Paramecium, micro-tubules, DNA Molecules, Viruses, Cells, Atoms, Bacteria?

BrainMan, do you have any reference you can post about micro-tubules reacting with apparent intentions?

I think that Intent will break down to simply Momentum; You are headed that way (mentally), so you have that intention.

Just paramecium, they are a load of microtubules that can walk around, find food etc. They are considered more automatic than conscious.

Are you sure consciousness is the point... is it not intelligence that you are interested in. I presume this god entity you are referring to is intelligent, but you need to fill me in as to what i god is. I have no idea what a god is.

There is a difference between consciousness and intelligence. Intelligence can subset and integrate its processes to a more complex level.

[harleyborgais]

First this...


a) You can be conscious without intelligence,
b) You can be conscious without Creativity,
c) You can be conscious without Emotion,
d) You can be conscious without Imagination,
e) You can be conscious without Speach,
f) You can be conscious without any senses,
g) You can be conscious without the ability to move,


1) You cannot be Conscious if you are "Brain Dead",
2) You cannot be Conscious if you are asleep,
3) You cannot be Conscious if you are Dead,

Whatelse?

[harleyborgais]

1) What did you mean by "Just Paramecium,"? Are you saying that is the only conscious thing in my list (above)?

2) Can you please post some references for the info about MicroTubules walking and searching for food?

3) No, Intelligence Came after Intelligence, and the God which I believe exists is the one described by the Book of Adam and Eve, of Enoch, and the writings of David, of Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, another person named Enoch from the 1900's, and other sources of stories about the one true God which created our existence.

That is my God. The simple belief in that Gods Existence, along with a life full of doing good works, is the path to Heaven according to Christian, Islamic, and many other religions.

The Free Masons also require a belief in a creator God (a Grand Architect), but they do not discuss religion or politics in their meetings for good reason.

I figured out how a pattern of momentum -of the most basic forces -pressure in motion, could react to form the pattern known as The Flower of Life, which represents the actual shape of matter (seen above and at freeornottobe.org at the bottom of The Genesis of Relativity).

During that process I figured that pure and simply, consciousness is simply a system of fields of energy which are all mutually inductive, or in other words, whatever happens to one, is felt by the whole. That is what first formed consciousness, before emotions, creativity, free will, or intelligence (which each formed in that order).

Before that I had realized that the simplest matter is an Electron and a Proton (forming one Hydrogen atom), which is two opposite waves of pressure (- & +), each with three axis of angular momentum, making eight important factors.

For that matter to first be formed, there needed to be a more complex system of energy waves to form six eddy currents together in just the right way. Mathematically it requires more vectors to make Hydrogen than the six or eight in Hydrogen.

This level of complexity is greater than the simplest form of Consciousness, and according to my theory, matter came very soom after Free Will, and the Intelligence of God increases with time, because the entire Physical Universe is the Physical Body of God, and the sub-conscious mind of God is all of the Brains alive today (as if each brain is one of Gods Brain-Cells). It all follows that fractal pattern of spherical dipole fields called the flower of life.

[LucidFlight]

3) No, Intelligence Came after Intelligence, and the God which I believe exists is the one described by the Book of Adam and Eve, of Enoch, and the writings of David, of Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, another person named Enoch from the 1900's, and other sources of stories about the one true God which created our existence.

(My highlighting.)

Intelligence came after intelligence? Did you mean intelligence came after consciousness (or the other way around)? Also, you used a capital "I" for "Intelligence". Is that because you associate intelligence with God?

[JimC]

3) No, Intelligence Came after Intelligence, and the God which I believe exists is the one described by the Book of Adam and Eve, of Enoch, and the writings of David, of Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, another person named Enoch from the 1900's, and other sources of stories about the one true God which created our existence.

(My highlighting.)

Intelligence came after intelligence? Did you mean intelligence came after consciousness (or the other way around)? Also, you used a capital "I" for "Intelligence". Is that because you associate intelligence with God?

He uses capitals for many words, because they're very, very special...

The Quantum Energy Crystals tell him which words are special enough...