Plastic twats

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Scot Dutchy
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Re: Plastic twats

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:44 pm

At the present moment if people want to work there is work and plenty of it and well paid. I am not saying it has been always like this. Back in the eighties I was unemployed for two years with unemployment running at 13%. Unemployment does not have much of a political clout.
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Re: Plastic twats

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:50 pm

Is this just a feeling you have, or do you have any stats to back this up? I can't imagine that the Netherlands is immune to the same forces of automation and offshoring of jobs that the rest of the west has. The reality is that there are not enough jobs for everyone. And it's only going to get worse. Using people who can't get a job for cheap labour when you could be employing someone who wants to work is perverse.
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Re: Plastic twats

Post by laklak » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:06 pm

We use convicts to clean up the major highways. They're not in chains, but there's always a couple of fat sheriffs with shotguns, occasionally on horses.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Plastic twats

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:10 pm

At this period of time this is the case. Our statistic office.

Number of unemployed drops below 400 thousand
In November, close to 8.7 million people in the Netherlands were in paid employment, the highest number ever recorded. The number of 15 to 74-year-olds in paid employment increased by 15 thousand per month on average in the previous quarter, according to figures released by Statistics Netherlands (CBS). Slightly over 4.2 million people did not have paid work for a variety of reasons. Among these people, 397 thousand indicated that they had looked for work recently and were also immediately available; these are the unemployed according to the definition used by the International Labour Organization (ILO). As a result, the total number of unemployed fell below 400 thousand for the first time since September 2009, having declined by an average 10 thousand per month over the past quarter.
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Re: Plastic twats

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:13 pm

laklak wrote:We use convicts to clean up the major highways. They're not in chains, but there's always a couple of fat sheriffs with shotguns, occasionally on horses.
.

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Re: Plastic twats

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:13 pm

Define "employment". I hope it's not the 1 hour per week (or is it fortnight? ) that many countries use. And it's largely irrelevant anyway, as employed people seek more work hours (via extra jobs) too.
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Re: Plastic twats

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:21 pm

Unemployment is the ILO (International Labour Organisation) definition. ZHC and standby contracts are illegal.

Image

Banen = jobs Weklozen = Unemployed. Kwartaal = quarter.
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Re: Plastic twats

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:38 pm

I found the ILO definition of unemployment:
The unemployed comprise all persons of working age who were:
a) without work during the reference period, i.e. were not in paid employment or self-employment;
b) currently available for work, i.e. were available for paid employment or self-employment during the reference period; and
c) seeking work, i.e. had taken specific steps in a specified recent period to seek paid employment or self-employment. Future starters, that is, persons who did not look for work but have a future labour market stake (made arrangements for a future job start) are also counted as unemployed, as well as participants in skills training or retraining schemes within employment promotion programmes, who on that basis, were “not in employment”, not “currently available” and did not “seek employment” because they had a job offer to start within a short subsequent period generally not greater than three months and persons “not in employment” who carried out activities to migrate abroad in order to work for pay or profit but
who were still waiting for the opportunity to leave
No mention of ZHC or standby contracts.
http://www.ilo.org/ilostat-files/Docume ... _UR_EN.pdf
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Re: Plastic twats

Post by Cunt » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:17 pm

Tero wrote:
JimC wrote:Put recycling bins around the places people tend to discard plastic bottles...
But but...every Trump voter in our recreation areas drags the bottles and beer cans as far from the parking lots as possible, drinks, and discards. "Because i am a tax payer."
Only Dems throw plastic bottles away.

Reps are REAL 'Merikuns, and use American Steel water bottles ONLY.
devogue wrote:Some people are just fucking stupid. Always have been and always will be.

When I was a child we were taught not to litter - it's a very, very simple concept. We were also taught the Green Cross Code - look both ways and be safe when crossing a road. Again, very, very simple.

But some children are utterly fucking stupid, and they don't understand. They grow in to utterly stupid fucking adults, they throw shit about the place and they don't know how to cross a road. We should find a way to combine litter and road safety to kill them off.
I am a bit bothered by some of the litter focus. We have one of the most contaminated mine-scars on the planet, and people pick the litter up around there. It looks lovely. If the arsenic trioxide hidden there were to escape, I think everyone around this lake would die (along with everything in it, of course)

But it looks great.
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Re: Plastic twats

Post by Woodbutcher » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:19 pm

I live 20 km outside the downtown area and like to walk for my health, especially after my doctor told me I was developing rheumatoid arthritis. So I walk around the country roads 3 or 4 times a week, trying to put in about 8 km a day. When I started doing that I noticed that there seemed to be a fair amount of garbage along the side of the road, and thought that I should do something about that. So now when I walk I pick up whatever I see. I pick up beer bottles and cans which are worth 10 cents each, liquor and wine bottles which are worth 20 cents and take these to a depot. I also pick up pop cans and donate them to school recycling drives, tetra packs and plastic bottles, which are collected at dump recycling area, and regular garbage, which I sneak in wherever there is a bin available and unlocked. Last year I made $283 in cans and bottles, found coupons worth about five bucks, found a set of binoculars worth $150 on ebay plus some other electronic stuff that plugs into a car cigarette lighter to charge a cell phone, some tools etc. Unfortunately, instead of doing continuous brisk walking I spend some time in the ditches, picking up weird stuff and carrying it home. People driving by recognise me, and by the way of greeting me shake their heads.... :think:
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Re: Plastic twats

Post by Cunt » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:42 pm

Woodbutcher wrote:I live 20 km outside the downtown area and like to walk for my health, especially after my doctor told me I was developing rheumatoid arthritis. So I walk around the country roads 3 or 4 times a week, trying to put in about 8 km a day. When I started doing that I noticed that there seemed to be a fair amount of garbage along the side of the road, and thought that I should do something about that. So now when I walk I pick up whatever I see. I pick up beer bottles and cans which are worth 10 cents each, liquor and wine bottles which are worth 20 cents and take these to a depot. I also pick up pop cans and donate them to school recycling drives, tetra packs and plastic bottles, which are collected at dump recycling area, and regular garbage, which I sneak in wherever there is a bin available and unlocked. Last year I made $283 in cans and bottles, found coupons worth about five bucks, found a set of binoculars worth $150 on ebay plus some other electronic stuff that plugs into a car cigarette lighter to charge a cell phone, some tools etc. Unfortunately, instead of doing continuous brisk walking I spend some time in the ditches, picking up weird stuff and carrying it home. People driving by recognise me, and by the way of greeting me shake their heads.... :think:
I started walking for my health a few years ago. I used the treadmill, since I didn't want to be seen (I was fat as fuck)

Eventually, I couldn't reach my heart-rate goals solely by walking, so I used the incline.

When that didn't work anymore, I started running.

Now I'm LOVING trailrunning. It is a hoot, and I am planning a trail 'ultra' for my 70th year.

You are already doing the kind of training which will lead there. I hope you get into it. It's been very rewarding, and I enjoy having the capacity to run 20km pretty much any time.

But I don't pick up litter. It seems to be a tradition here, and we all have to be careful around traditions.
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Re: Plastic twats

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:40 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:I found the ILO definition of unemployment:
The unemployed comprise all persons of working age who were:
a) without work during the reference period, i.e. were not in paid employment or self-employment;
b) currently available for work, i.e. were available for paid employment or self-employment during the reference period; and
c) seeking work, i.e. had taken specific steps in a specified recent period to seek paid employment or self-employment. Future starters, that is, persons who did not look for work but have a future labour market stake (made arrangements for a future job start) are also counted as unemployed, as well as participants in skills training or retraining schemes within employment promotion programmes, who on that basis, were “not in employment”, not “currently available” and did not “seek employment” because they had a job offer to start within a short subsequent period generally not greater than three months and persons “not in employment” who carried out activities to migrate abroad in order to work for pay or profit but
who were still waiting for the opportunity to leave
No mention of ZHC or standby contracts.
http://www.ilo.org/ilostat-files/Docume ... _UR_EN.pdf
As I said it's largely irrelevant anyway, as job holders can and do seek more hours via extra jobs. Also, unemployment figures take no account of people who have dropped out of the system, although if there's no basis for the state to deny someone welfare (like an individual not meeting mutual obligation requirements) as you say is the case in the Netherlands (can you link a reference for this?), then this would not apply.
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Re: Plastic twats

Post by Rum » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:09 pm

The UK has more or less the same unemployment rate at the Netherlands (within a percentage point). I'm sure the Netherlands does this better than us but I'll just make the point as I have a 20 something daughter trying to get by.

This may be typical of many other countries - I don't know. Our unemployment rate is pretty low, officially. But zero hours contracts and low hours contracts are the norm for swathes of young people. My daughter (currently doing an MA at University) worked in retail off and on and had to put up with a basic contract of something like ten hours a week and then hope that her boss (a computer software retailer) would be able to offer her more hours when and if. She usually got 20 to 30 a week - sometimes more, but it depended on random circumstances she had no control over - sickness of other staff, vacancies and so on. It became very clear to me that the company keep their costs as low as possible by manipulating these contracts to their advantage and of course in a retail world that is struggling and a workforce that can't be choosy it is easy to see why they do it.

It is of course, from my perspective about the exploitation of labour by capital, but that doesn't make life any easier for my daughter and a couple of million like her here who can't consider things like owning their own home - things my many of my generation took for granted.

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Re: Plastic twats

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:55 pm

I think our countries (US, UK, Australia and others) moved to the "1 hour/week" standard of 'employment' for obvious reasons. The real level of unemployment (i.e. underemployment) is usually at least double on average and considerably higher than that for the younger working age brackets. It's not easy for a government to bullshit about its performance when underemployment is in the 10-20% range across the board and 30-50% for young people.
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Re: Plastic twats

Post by Scot Dutchy » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:17 am

I came across this article a couple of months ago. It explains why the UK unemployment rate is so low. BTW I am not being anti-UK here just showing how governments work.

https://www.businessinsider.nl/unemploy ... =true&r=UK
The problem with this record is that the statistical definition of “unemployment” relies on a fiction that economists tell themselves about the nature of work. As the rate gets lower and lower, it tests that lie. Because – as anyone who has studied basic economics knows – the official definition of unemployment disguises the true rate. In reality, about 21.5% of all working-age people (defined as ages 16 to 64) are without jobs, or 8.83 million people, according to the Office for National Statistics.
The ILO definition is for people wishing to work between the ages of 16 to 74.
In the UK and the US, technical “full employment” has, as a rule of thumb, historically been placed at an unemployment rate of 5% to 6%. When unemployment gets that low it generally means that anyone who wants a job can have one.
If unemployment was so low why are not wages rising.
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