Most clinical studies on vitamins flawed by poor methodology

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Xamonas Chegwé
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Re: Most clinical studies on vitamins flawed by poor methodo

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:51 am

Scrumple wrote:
rainbow wrote:
Xamonas Chegwé wrote:
Scrumple wrote:...clarifying the unusual situations would be in everyone's interest surely, though? Does seem the article sees the need for targeted usage. If studies are showing that fish oil acts as a mood stabiliser, which even valid scientific studies have hinted at, and places like Detroit have very little access to sea-products, then doling out cheap fish-oil caps might be part of the answer for a city in decline?
:roll:

No. It may be part of the solution for a dietary supplement industry worried about being in decline - but that's all. :tea:
If God had meant us to eat vegetables, he would never have given us vitamin pills.
Good science should provide the answer - seems to require more than a straightforward meta-study, these vits and herbs and things are manifold, but given that the US has countless medical student types out of work and can print it's way through costs....could be done? Devil makes work for idle hands and some of those bio-hackers could do with real work rather than wiping out part of the human race with some concoction in their garage? Thinking of the big picture gives you a headache I know. :coffee:
Do you seriously think that all that has been done in this field is "a straightforward meta-study"? :roll:

Your tenacity in defending the indefensible is to be applauded. However, you are a little overfull in the faecal matter department. :tea:
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Re: Most clinical studies on vitamins flawed by poor methodo

Post by FBM » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:56 am

Well, hell. Linus Pauling may have been sort-of right all along about vitamin C, at least in the injectable form: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-26038460

Thing is, he took it orally and...died from cancer.
Vitamin C keeps cancer at bay, US research suggests
By Helen Briggs
BBC News
High-dose vitamin C can boost the cancer-killing effect of chemotherapy in the lab and mice, research suggests.

Given by injection, it could potentially be a safe, effective and low-cost treatment for ovarian and other cancers, say US scientists.

Reporting in Science Translational Medicine, they call for large-scale government clinical trials.

Pharmaceutical companies are unlikely to run trials, as vitamins cannot be patented.

Vitamin C has long been used as an alternative therapy for cancer.

In the 1970s, chemist Linus Pauling reported that vitamin C given intravenously was effective in treating cancer...
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Re: Most clinical studies on vitamins flawed by poor methodo

Post by Phil Hill » Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:13 pm

Scumple wrote:http://oregonstate.edu/ua/ncs/archives/ ... ethodology

Review: Most clinical studies on vitamins flawed by poor methodology

CORVALLIS, Ore. – Most large, clinical trials of vitamin supplements, including some that have concluded they are of no value or even harmful, have a flawed methodology that renders them largely useless in determining the real value of these micronutrients, a new analysis suggests.

Many projects have tried to study nutrients that are naturally available in the human diet the same way they would a powerful prescription drug. This leads to conclusions that have little scientific meaning, even less accuracy and often defy a wealth of other evidence, said Balz Frei, professor and director of the Linus Pauling Institute at Oregon State University, in a new review published in the journal Nutrients.

These flawed findings will persist until the approach to studying micronutrients is changed, Frei said. Such changes are needed to provide better, more scientifically valid information to consumers around the world who often have poor diets, do not meet intake recommendations for many vitamins and minerals, and might greatly benefit from something as simple as a daily multivitamin/mineral supplement.

Needed are new methodologies that accurately measure baseline nutrient levels, provide supplements or dietary changes only to subjects who clearly are inadequate or deficient, and then study the resulting changes in their health. Tests must be done with blood plasma or other measurements to verify that the intervention improved the subjects’ micronutrient status along with biomarkers of health. And other approaches are also needed that better reflect the different ways in which nutrients behave in cell cultures, lab animals and the human body.
The new analysis specifically looked at problems with the historic study of vitamin C, but scientists say many of the observations are more broadly relevant to a wide range of vitamins, micro nutrients and studies.

“One of the obvious problems is that most large, clinical studies of vitamins have been done with groups such as doctors and nurses who are educated, informed, able to afford healthy food and routinely have better dietary standards than the public as a whole,” said Frei, an international expert on vitamin C and antioxidants.

Vitamin or mineral supplements, or an improved diet, will primarily benefit people who are inadequate or deficient to begin with, OSU researchers said. But most modern clinical studies do not do baseline analysis to identify nutritional inadequacies and do not assess whether supplements have remedied those inadequacies. As a result, any clinical conclusion made with such methodology is pretty much useless, they said.

“More than 90 percent of U.S. adults don’t get the required amounts of vitamins D and E for basic health,” Frei said. “More than 40 percent don’t get enough vitamin C, and half aren’t getting enough vitamin A, calcium and magnesium. Smokers, the elderly, people who are obese, ill or injured often have elevated needs for vitamins and minerals.

“It’s fine to tell people to eat better, but it’s foolish to suggest that a multivitamin which costs a nickel a day is a bad idea.”

(continued)
Stopped reading after your post word the study making a wrong assumption. Studies show and have always shown that vitamins derived from diet are good but supplemental vitamins are harmful and particularly harmful are antioxidants

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Re: Most clinical studies on vitamins flawed by poor methodo

Post by Phil Hill » Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:16 pm

JimC wrote:It may well be true that vitamin supplements are useful for people in unusual situations, or with extremely poor diets. For example, my wife has a skin which burns incredibly easily, and avoids the sunlight like a vampire. Despite a pretty good diet, she had a vitamin D deficit as a consequence of little sunlight on the skin, and so takes a daily supplement.

However, the vitamin supplement industry sells their product via the spin that everybody needs their product, which is undoubtedly self-serving overkill...
Vitamin D isn't technically a vitamin.

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Re: Most clinical studies on vitamins flawed by poor methodo

Post by Tero » Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:54 pm

We are deficient in some minerals, compared to our hunter gatherer origin. This is simply because we eat clean food, with less rocks and sticks in it.

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Re: Most clinical studies on vitamins flawed by poor methodo

Post by rainbow » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:06 am

Missionaries are technically vegetables too.
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Re: Most clinical studies on vitamins flawed by poor methodo

Post by Tero » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:01 pm

Too squishy but protein! More than in soy beans.

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Re: Most clinical studies on vitamins flawed by poor methodo

Post by JimC » Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:11 pm

rainbow wrote:Missionaries are technically vegetables too.
And if you leave their clothes on, you get your daily dose of fibre! :cheer:
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Re: Most clinical studies on vitamins flawed by poor methodo

Post by rainbow » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:08 am

Good point!
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