Hitman: Blood Money Mafia - A Dance With The Devil

[Contrapposto]

X post x4 or more.
Going back up to read.

[Zigmen]

Raven, my main point is that Gonzo might consider his explanation of the 2 VIPS as the reveal.

What you're considering may provide your team with an unfair advantage.

If, as GM, I thought that's what you intended to do, I would allow the GK and go straight to nightfall.

My other point is that you need to not assume that I'm on board with your plan. Especially since you are obviously trying to paint me as Scummy by doing so.

Do you at least get that much?

[oblivion]

Raven, my main point is that Gonzo might consider his explanation of the 2 VIPS as the reveal.

What you're considering may provide your team with an unfair advantage.

If, as GM, I thought that's what you intended to do, I would allow the GK and go straight to nightfall.

My other point is that you need to not assume that I'm on board with your plan. Especially since you are obviously trying to paint me as Scummy by doing so.

Do you at least get that much?

yes, I do get that you are not on board. It doesn't change where you fall in my scum list, since I'd settled on that spot long before this side discussion arose.

[Zigmen]

Then stop trying to paint me as Scummy for new reasons that don't hold water. It gets tiresome when you do it over and over.

If you think I'm Scum, say why, and use real reasons, not fabricated bullshit that you retract the secoind you get called on it.

Sheesh.

[amok]

Raven, my main point is that Gonzo might consider his explanation of the 2 VIPS as the reveal.

What does that have to do with the PMs to Gonzo issue? The number of players in each role is an obvious element of the game - we were supposed to be figuring out who has which role (not alignment) and find Agent 47 by that means. We haven't even started doing that.

If it turns out that Diva is telling the truth, I'm going to have to rethink everything I thought I knew about this game. The very idea that a GM would answer the question: "Does that mean Charlou was the seer? I need plain mafia-speak," with anything other than: "Players need to figure things out for themselves," or something along those lines, is mind-boggling. If it's true, I'll be pestering GMs for easy answers, too.

[oblivion]

From night chat:

Zigmen - have some doubts about him, though I understand it could be a personal reaction to what I consider to be lies about my scum game and his intimate knowledge of same.

You don't have intimate knowledge of my scum game. You've seen me play 2 scum games in over a year, and seen well over 50 town games and a handful of indie games in the same timeframe. I don't play scum often enough to even have a scum game.

from last night:

Better than the "Fuck off" I half expected~

Let me clarify, though. If I was trying to be elusive, i would have answered the way Shizz did.

But, this is Shizz we are talking about, so I'll downgrade my "elusive" to "unhelpful."

I'm curious why you've dropped your concerns about me.

As simply as I can put this, you can trolley-track, revenge vote, and do late vote-switches with impunity. You are like Bill
Clinton on Day 1 (bulletproof).

Now, for as screwed up as you've been this game with the role PM "Federation" mishap, you quickly offered yourself up for lynch.

IOW, you're a mean player with a license to be egregious, but you're also a big-picture kind of player.

So, what I have seen you screw up in this game, i have seen you redeem yourself for, at least partially.

If you want more specifics, I suggest you ask me in the post-game.

xpost x5 or so . . .

you said I was playing my scum profile yesterday. if anything I've been meaner today because I'm angry with myself. this is day 2 and I am quite lynchable thanks to my own lack of prep and carelessness. big picture or not, what you are essentially saying is that I am not as scummy looking today as I was yesterday.

much as I appreciate the upgrade, I have to fos this.

I FoSed you some more about the revenge vote stuff, which you've both corrected me as to which vote you meant and retracted.

bottom line, I don't revenge vote. If I vote someone who has a vote on me, it's not because they have a vote on me. It's because I think they are scummy.

[gib]

ob dont get godkilled if diva flips town

[oblivion]

ob dont get godkilled if diva flips town

I've amended my PM to gonzo to the effect that I won't go for the godkill immediately if she flips town. reluctantly.

[divagreen]

Raven, my main point is that Gonzo might consider his explanation of the 2 VIPS as the reveal.

What does that have to do with the PMs to Gonzo issue? The number of players in each role is an obvious element of the game - we were supposed to be figuring out who has which role (not alignment) and find Agent 47 by that means. We haven't even started doing that.

If it turns out that Diva is telling the truth, I'm going to have to rethink everything I thought I knew about this game. The very idea that a GM would answer the question: "Does that mean Charlou was the seer? I need plain mafia-speak," with anything other than: "Players need to figure things out for themselves," or something along those lines, is mind-boggling. If it's true, I'll be pestering GMs for easy answers, too.

When you are lost, do you ask for directions? Don't you try to get as much information as possible before making decisions? I was not asking about someone active in the game. I was asking about a lynched player that I was confused about. I think Gonzo assumed we would all get it.

The GMs are there to answer questions if a player is confused about what the GM posts. They can say, "Players need to figure things out for themselves." but that sometimes sows more confusion and helps scum, IMO. And that can effect a game balance.

[Zigmen]

bottom line, I don't revenge vote. If I vote someone who has a vote on me, it's not because they have a vote on me. It's because I think they are scummy.

Look at the Votes on you from earlier today. Remember, I also had a vote on you but had pulled it off at the time of this count:

Vote count:
diva: 3 (gib, oblivion, irre)
oblivion: 3 (linus, diva, ani)
shizzle: 1 (zigmen)
linus: 1 (dp)
(null: amok, aza, contra, ksen, mono, rc, shizzle)

Now. let's look at your FoSes from earlier today:

scummy: linus, Aza, Ani, Zigmen

3 out of 4 of your "Scumpile" are those with votes on you today.

Now, i appreciate that you think I'm Scummy for pointing out that you get away with revenge voting. Technically, I might be wrong . . .

But look at the big picture: Somebody votes for you, and -boom- they end up on your Scumpile.

The only thing worse than your inability to see what you do is your gall to throw FoSes at people who actually notice it.

[oblivion]

bottom line, I don't revenge vote. If I vote someone who has a vote on me, it's not because they have a vote on me. It's because I think they are scummy.

Look at the Votes on you from earlier today. Remember, I also had a vote on you but had pulled it off at the time of this count:

Vote count:
diva: 3 (gib, oblivion, irre)
oblivion: 3 (linus, diva, ani)
shizzle: 1 (zigmen)
linus: 1 (dp)
(null: amok, aza, contra, ksen, mono, rc, shizzle)

Now. let's look at your FoSes from earlier today:

scummy: linus, Aza, Ani, Zigmen

3 out of 4 of your "Scumpile" are those with votes on you today.

Now, i appreciate that you think I'm Scummy for pointing out that you get away with revenge voting. Technically, I might be wrong . . .

But look at the big picture: Somebody votes for you, and -boom- they end up on your Scumpile.

The only thing worse than your inability to see what you do is your gall to throw FoSes at people who actually notice it.

your drivel might be meaningful if I hadn't fosed all of them prior to their voting me. and note that I moved Ani to my town pile even though he has a vote on me.

but, carry on. you are on a roll.

[Zigmen]

Raven, you had FoSes on nearly everyone, so your defense is for shit.

What matters is, after their votes, your narrowed down scumpile is almost a carbon copy of those who had votes on you.

[oblivion]

Raven, you had FoSes on nearly everyone, so your defense is for shit.

What matters is, after their votes, your narrowed down scumpile is almost a carbon copy of those who had votes on you.

bullshit.

m

[oblivion]

god damn phone. I'm at my laptop now.

hold on.

[Zigmen]

Okay. I have consulted with someone. This is not a no-reveal game. I did not receive privileged information. If people were confused about Charlou's cardflip then they should have asked. Oblivion is claiming that she asked. But town does not know that anymore than if I did.

The game is only broken if the GM responded to one PM and not the other. However, I think a happy solution would be if Oblivion did send a message to the GM and he did not respond that he should state this in the thread. Does that sound like a good solution?

Sure.

Bump.

Still waiting on this.