Venture Bros: day 5

Post by **charlou** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:20 am

I've followed the game. Good contributions by all, I think. Gonzo, your sacrifice cleared MZ ... MZ was lucky to still be in play, though.

I don't know about the balance. Parity was what? Two all, in the end? Not too bad.

Odd game, but yeah, not too bad at all. Linus, thanks for the game.

Post by **Magicziggy** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:25 am

What was the GM fuck up. Don't make me read the scumboard.

Post by **amok** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:41 am

Don't Panic wrote:
irretating wrote:congrats scum!

...I'm not sure this game was balanced, tbh... no seer for town, no doc? Just two half blockers?

thanks for running the game, Linus
no don for scum though, balances no seer, no doc was a surprise though.

I thought amok would turn out to be a survivor indie though, didn't expect a traitor.

Now, what joker married me to aza?

That would be me. I had two one-shot actions:

Dr. Killinger's Magic Murder Bag gives him these 1-shot powers (max one per night):

* hide from other night actions
* make two players lovers, i.e. when one of them dies the other does too (they won't learn each other's alignments)

I tried it with Gib & Gonzo Night 3, but Gib had already been killed by the time I sent my PM. I tried it with Aza & DP on Night 4 (thinking you both were Town).

I've got to say Traitorville is a cold and lonely place. I had no clue who was Scum and didn't know how to play the role. Sometimes I even forgot myself and found myself thinking and playing like Town.

Post by **amok** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:50 am

Mantisdreamz wrote:
irretating wrote:Dunno.

14 players

3 scum
1 traitor

effectively one role blocker for town
I agree that is was in our favour. Mostly because there was no one to counter claim DP at all. If something even like a naive seer was added, it would have served to put more pressure on DP's claim.

Amok - did you know who the scum team were?

No.

Post by **amok** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:20 am

Sorry, I forgot to say thank you Linus for the game.

My early game posts were quite sincere in that I came in with a poor attitude. I tried to rally after a few days realizing it's not at all fair to the mod and the other players to not try, whatever whatever stuff was happening outside the game.

To be fair, I didn't do the Scum team any favours, so the balance didn't end up being too bad. Two part-time Town Specials, one Scum Special, and one Traitor who never figured out who Scum were.

Post by **charlou** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:23 am

Magicziggy wrote:What was the GM fuck up. Don't make me read the scumboard.

relevent part:

Zigmen said… (02 Dec 11, looking at version 2) Indicator

Scrap that. Gonna Kill MZ and view Feck

Trash Zigmen said… (02 Dec 11, looking at version 2) Indicator

PM Sent

Trash Zigmen said… (02 Dec 11, looking at version 2) Indicator

We can guess MZ and Gonzo are the blockers, so no need to view them.

If we kill MZ, DP can claim the attempted view.

That leaves us free to look at Feck, who seems specially to me.

Trash mantis said… (02 Dec 11, looking at version 2) Indicator

Thanks Zig, for sending the PMs in. I was just going to come on here and say that MZ is the better choice for nk.

assuming he was protected last night, and not tonight

Trash mantis said… (02 Dec 11, looking at version 2) Indicator

Feck seems like a good view.

Trash Linus said… (02 Dec 11, looking at version 2) Indicator

Guys, I’m very sorry. I mixed up your NK and view and posted a reveal of Feck’s death… Irre posted in the day 3 thread before I noticed my error, so I don’t think I can undo it.

Post by **MattShizzle** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:28 am

3 scum in a 14 player game is about right if there are no traitors or scum specials other than maybe don and town at least has a doc and seer. 3 scum and a traitor with a scum special that can easily pose as town and then only 2 extremely weak town specials is just being cruel. And then giving 2 town players the same named role to make it likely one gets lynched (though it didn't work.) Town didn't really have a chance.

Post by **Gonzo** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:01 am

Yeah, Linus. Good game. I sucked, though.

Post by **Magicziggy** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:15 am

Gonzo wrote:Yeah, Linus. Good game. I sucked, though.

Fucking whore.
Who was it?

Post by **Gonzo** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:28 am

Your mom!

Post by **gib** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:28 am

mantis i'm kidding!

Post by **Linus** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:51 am

MattShizzle wrote:3 scum in a 14 player game is about right if there are no traitors or scum specials other than maybe don and town at least has a doc and seer.

Hypothetically, suppose you're given the option of choosing side and that you're motivated to play for a win. Would you then be fairly indifferent to which side in a 2 scum + scum don vs. doc + seer + 9 vanilla you end up on? I would have clear preference for the town side...

3 scum and a traitor with a scum special that can easily pose as town and then only 2 extremely weak town specials is just being cruel. And then giving 2 town players the same named role to make it likely one gets lynched (though it didn't work.) Town didn't really have a chance.

I don't really think the two half-blockers were that weak. Their potential positive contributions to town were:

* chance of blocking scum kill & identifying a scum player
* clear/semi-clear themselves since the block messages + flavor knowledge singled out their name claim
* generate useful info from unsuccessful blocks about who did not perform given NKs

Concerning the last point, I think on day 5 you could've reasoned something like this (or at least you could've if I had revealed the setup and highlighted the fact that individualized NK reports were used in the rules/PG thread):

Scum X killed N1
Scum X killed N2
mantis was blocked N2, so she was not Scum X
Scum Y killed N3
mantis was lynched D3 so she was also not Scum Y
Scum Y killed N4
shizzle was blocked N4, so he is not Scum Y
amok is viewed as Henry Killinger, that doesn't fit any kill flavor seen so far, so she is neither Scum X nor Scum Y
With 2 scum left you can't afford to lynch amok, you must lynch someone else

That's just an example, I think situations where block info + individualized kill reports are quite helpful are likely to arise as long as at least one of the blockers survives for a while.

Post by **Feck** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:43 am

Thanks for the game Linus ... And I love it when scum think I'm a special nothing like wasting their night actions

Post by **irretating** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:26 pm

Feck wrote:Thanks for the game Linus ... And I love it when scum think I'm a special nothing like wasting their night actions

yeah I nominate you for MVP for doing that, it was brilliant

Post by **Don't Panic** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:47 pm

Feck wrote:Thanks for the game Linus ... And I love it when scum think I'm a special nothing like wasting their night actions

Sorry feck, but we wanted to view you and kill mz that night, Linus messed up and reversed it.

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