Hitman: Blood Money Mafia - A Dance With The Devil

[Zigmen]

Irre, if I'm not the last VIP in the Invited List, who is?

Also, how could that person not be a liar?

[Zigmen]

I think we're seeing Scum flail as more gets revealed, and there's nowhere to hide.

yes, Irre, i mean you.

You had a better chance before you started trying to clear Contra and lynch me. You almost got away with it, too.

Except for one little thing.

Math.

[r.c]

Raven, is there any way the extra Officer could be Town?

Please read my above post, look at the numbers, and try to figure out any scenario where that could happen.

I know you're Town, and I need to figure out if I'm missing something.

RC and Gib, same question.

It was contra who pointed out that gonzo was closely following the video game mechanics. Unless he can point out a traitor in the game who could have been invited to the franchise party, I don't see any other option.

[Zigmen]

Raven, is there any way the extra Officer could be Town?

Please read my above post, look at the numbers, and try to figure out any scenario where that could happen.

I know you're Town, and I need to figure out if I'm missing something.

RC and Gib, same question.

It was contra who pointed out that gonzo was closely following the video game mechanics. Unless he can point out a traitor in the game who could have been invited to the franchise party, I don't see any other option.

Good point, RC.

Also, as you said, for that to happen, that would mean there were only 2 Scum and 1 Agent in a 17 player game, which is beyond ridiculous.

Also, I forgot to open this question to other cleared players.

Ksen, MZ, your thoughts?

Did i miss anyone?

[oblivion]

I would look at people who avoided the pm clusterfuck too, because some knew it was town on town.

yeh i tried some shit where i said we should definitely go after/lynch you next day, did anyone bite on that?

you who got all paranoid and thought i was fossing u btw, or at least you said there was something pingy about it. If you didn't mean me can u recall who u did mean?

actually iirc it was r.c and contra who pinged over that. those two and zigmen both said linus if diva flipped scum and me if she didn't.

get out of my head, gib.

I went back through the thread from the point where the PM fiasco blew up. I saw the area where I started to look sorta 0.o in your direction for a bit, but I didn't say anything in-thread.

[oblivion]

Raven, is there any way the extra Officer could be Town?

Please read my above post, look at the numbers, and try to figure out any scenario where that could happen.

I know you're Town, and I need to figure out if I'm missing something.

RC and Gib, same question.

It was contra who pointed out that gonzo was closely following the video game mechanics. Unless he can point out a traitor in the game who could have been invited to the franchise party, I don't see any other option.

Good point, RC.

Also, as you said, for that to happen, that would mean there were only 2 Scum and 1 Agent in a 17 player game, which is beyond ridiculous.

Also, I forgot to open this question to other cleared players.

Ksen, MZ, your thoughts?

Did i miss anyone?

Zigmen, I don't think your views definitively clear players of being agent 47, so I"m suspicious of viewed guests. if we manage to eliminate 47, then I'll be a lot more sanguine about your views.

[ksen]

just want to talk through this a bit.

logic says that contra is an anomaly. an uninvited guest. an officer when there are already 2 officer invitees. gib and I have validated our roles to each other sufficiently that I buy his role is the same as mine and vice versa. and gib has been viewed. he's made a few mix-ups about his night action - viewed and killed instead of blocked.

and I didn't really get a response when I pointed out that a role blocker who learns from the GM whether their block was successful - a hit, if you will, on a player with a night action - is a role blocker who is also an investigator, which is something I've never seen in a game. He suggested I don't know gonzo's or FF's norms wrt roleblockers. and that's true, I guess. but as far as gonzo's norms go, neither does contra.

contra says he blocked me, and the night kill happened anyway.

I am weighing this against how he posts in general. There is something about his posting that looks scummy to me. dramatic, and too much about what is keeping him away from the keyboard somehow.

I've had some similar problems when playing mafia with gonzo. different mafia environments really do have different norms, and I'm still trying to understand the FF norms after 3 recent games there.

Irre, what is it that leads you to believe that Contra is town? So far, every uninvited role has been scum.

Why should it be anymore difficult than Contra is the an uninvited officer?

[Gonzo]

LYNCHEE
01. amok
02. contra [7.5] Linus, rc, zigmen, ksen, gib, amok, Magic Ziggy
03. gib
04. irre
05. ksen
06. Linus
07. MagicZiggy
08. MattShizzle
09. oblivion [1] contra
10. r.c.
11. Zigmen

[ksen]

Contra, who is scum in your opinion? I know you think town is going to pull this victory out, but I'm having serious doubts because people are being led about and maintaining a perpetual confusion instead of actually playing mafia. For instance, if you flip town (which I think you will) then it looks like I'm the next lynch, which is :picard: and if you flip scum MZ and zig will say I tried to save you.

My gut points to rc and Linus. In that order.
There is just a certain insincerity about rc that I can't place my finger on thus my ribbing (fixing) him regarding his post I quoted. btw, what is the code for :fixed: anyway?
Oblivion also bothers me and I can't help but wonder if Gonzo only had to step in with her furor over the PM debacle to ease everyone else away from breaking a game over a lie.
Our plan was to vote Oblivion if diva flipped town. Why we strayed from that exactly I do not know.
If I had it my way, I would ##vote oblivion## and block Linus or rc tonight but I don't see that happening.

Awesome, I like the way you snuck that vote in there!

[Zigmen]

Ok, let me use Big numbers this time. It's a math question. This time it's open to everyone. Fair enough?

17 players
-13 Invited players
------------------
4 Uninvited Players

With me so far?

4 uninvited players
- 2 Dead unvited players
-----------------------------------
2 Living univited Players

Sound ok?

Now, we know exactly where we have extra uninvited players, right?

1 Extra Guest
+ 1 Extra Officer
------------------------------
2 Extra Players

Now, here's the question:

Is there any way that the Two Uninvited Players are anything BUT 1 Guest and 1 Officer?

Where else could they possibly be?

I'm asking this mainly to make sure I'm not missing anything.

[oblivion]

just want to talk through this a bit.

logic says that contra is an anomaly. an uninvited guest. an officer when there are already 2 officer invitees. gib and I have validated our roles to each other sufficiently that I buy his role is the same as mine and vice versa. and gib has been viewed. he's made a few mix-ups about his night action - viewed and killed instead of blocked.

and I didn't really get a response when I pointed out that a role blocker who learns from the GM whether their block was successful - a hit, if you will, on a player with a night action - is a role blocker who is also an investigator, which is something I've never seen in a game. He suggested I don't know gonzo's or FF's norms wrt roleblockers. and that's true, I guess. but as far as gonzo's norms go, neither does contra.

contra says he blocked me, and the night kill happened anyway.

I am weighing this against how he posts in general. There is something about his posting that looks scummy to me. dramatic, and too much about what is keeping him away from the keyboard somehow.

I've had some similar problems when playing mafia with gonzo. different mafia environments really do have different norms, and I'm still trying to understand the FF norms after 3 recent games there.

Irre, what is it that leads you to believe that Contra is town? So far, every uninvited role has been scum.

Why should it be anymore difficult than Contra is the an uninvited officer?

why should it be any more difficult than MartinM and Lily were both blocked on the same night that a scum kill went missing? why should it be any more difficult than how the hell could town have two role-blocking roles?

occam's razor occasionally slips.

[ksen]

It doesn't slip as often as you might think. Raven I think this is one of those times you are overanalyzing the hell out of it.

Who would you rather see lynched between Contra and Irre?

[Magicziggy]

At work, not even time to read the thread.
Will check back later.
I think we are making this unecessarily complicated from what I managed to read.
I think zigmen is on the right track.

[Contrapposto]

Ok, let me use Big numbers this time. It's a math question. This time it's open to everyone. Fair enough?

17 players
-13 Invited players
------------------
4 Uninvited Players

With me so far?

4 uninvited players
- 2 Dead unvited players
-----------------------------------
2 Living univited Players

Sound ok?

Now, we know exactly where we have extra uninvited players, right?

1 Extra Guest
+ 1 Extra Officer
------------------------------
2 Extra Players

Now, here's the question:

Is there any way that the Two Uninvited Players are anything BUT 1 Guest and 1 Officer?

Where else could they possibly be?

I'm asking this mainly to make sure I'm not missing anything.

My phone is about to die so I'll elaborate when I get home to a charger.
The numbers are off though and thanks rc or amok for being such great collaborators with Zig.
I wonder what you would have chosen to be had you not had the VIP spot, Zig.
How do you like my fly gold jacket, btw?

[oblivion]

It doesn't slip as often as you might think. Raven I think this is one of those times you are overanalyzing the hell out of it.

Who would you rather see lynched between Contra and Irre?

I'm thinking r.c and MZ are looking as scummy as Contra in terms of what they post and when. MZ could be rusty. he took a long break. r.c just...pings.

and occam's razor says not to worry about them.