Windows 7, Paint, and the Snipping Tool

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Re: Windows 7, Paint, and the Snipping Tool

Post by Cormac » Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:58 am

rasetsu wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Without that spreadsheet program they might still be in the University basements.
Actually, I think games and the Apple II, and event driven programming are just as important.

Games, much like porn for VHS tapes, sell hardware. And the Apple II was the first true home computer, thanks to the elegant and cheap engineering of Woz.
(Though not much more; things like the p-system for programmers required expensive memory card add-ons.)

And while the IBM PC's interface was clumsy and computationally inelegant and resource unfriendly, the MacIntosh was user and programmer friendly.


That all changed with the MacIntosh which was event driven and had a graphical user interface.

Event driven programming allows for the development of complex, graphical interface programs relatively simply and quickly, as opposed to traditional polling or interrupt trapping. I have one of the last (had) toolkits for doing windowed development on the IBM PC when DOS was still the standard, and it was a royal clusterfuck. IBM PC didn't see comparable interface design until Windows 3.1 in 1992 (which, IIRC, added true type fonts over 3.0 and networking in 3.11 Wfwg) and Windows NT 3.51 an 4.0 in 1995/1996.

Wikipedia states that the MacIntosh was not a descendant of the Apple Lisa, which was a similar graphical interface product. This is not strictly true. The Lisa's operating system was coded almost completely in Pascal (this was the time for Wirth's 15 minutes of fame), and the MacIntosh project borrowed heavily on the code from the Lisa project, taking what high level code it could use, and taking the most common routines and recoding them in 68000 assembler. It was likely this latter effort which meant the most for the success of the MacIntosh, as while the Motorola 68000 is and was a powerful microprocessor for the time, the rather inefficient high level code of the Lisa meant that the interface was not as snappy, nor as powerful for the programmer as that of the MacIntosh. (I considered buying a Lisa and I adored the machine. Unfortunately they wanted $8,000 for it and I couldn't get them to shave a penny off it.)

(Minor story and a favorite bit of lore. When I started BBSing in '86, there were still plenty of Apple II's still in service, and most didn't do lower case. So for Citadel, my primary BBS software, there was a filter which would recognize all caps and convert it to proper capitalization. I don't know how it got the name, but it stuck: it was the bunny filter. I imagine the code is still around and could be adapted to atheist forums for reformatting the angry posts of Theists and Creationists.)
What do you mean by BBS?

(I mean, I think I know, but I am puzzled).
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Re: Windows 7, Paint, and the Snipping Tool

Post by klr » Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:17 am

BBS = Bulletin board system

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_board_system

An ancient form of inter-computer communication, long before the days of the World Wide Web. Or so I've read.
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Re: Windows 7, Paint, and the Snipping Tool

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:21 am

klr wrote:BBS = Bulletin board system

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_board_system

An ancient form of inter-computer communication, long before the days of the World Wide Web. Or so I've read.
Yep, "chat" in the earliest form. Usually accompanied by garish colors and a complete lack of coherence.
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Re: Windows 7, Paint, and the Snipping Tool

Post by JimC » Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:30 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
klr wrote:BBS = Bulletin board system

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_board_system

An ancient form of inter-computer communication, long before the days of the World Wide Web. Or so I've read.
Yep, "chat" in the earliest form. Usually accompanied by garish colors and a complete lack of coherence.
Just like Ratz!

(at least part of it...)
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Re: Windows 7, Paint, and the Snipping Tool

Post by klr » Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:30 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
klr wrote:BBS = Bulletin board system

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_board_system

An ancient form of inter-computer communication, long before the days of the World Wide Web. Or so I've read.
Yep, "chat" in the earliest form. Usually accompanied by garish colors and a complete lack of coherence.
So, no real change then? ;)
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Re: Windows 7, Paint, and the Snipping Tool

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:32 am

klr wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
klr wrote:BBS = Bulletin board system

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_board_system

An ancient form of inter-computer communication, long before the days of the World Wide Web. Or so I've read.
Yep, "chat" in the earliest form. Usually accompanied by garish colors and a complete lack of coherence.
So, no real change then? ;)
Ubuntu.
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Re: Windows 7, Paint, and the Snipping Tool

Post by Cormac » Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:56 am

klr wrote:BBS = Bulletin board system

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_board_system

An ancient form of inter-computer communication, long before the days of the World Wide Web. Or so I've read.

That is what I thought... But how did one connect to a BBS on the Apple machines back then, while they were still so anti networked machines?

IIRC Apple machines didn't even have a connection point of any sort.
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Re: Windows 7, Paint, and the Snipping Tool

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:58 am

Cormac wrote:
klr wrote:BBS = Bulletin board system

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_board_system

An ancient form of inter-computer communication, long before the days of the World Wide Web. Or so I've read.

That is what I thought... But how did one connect to a BBS on the Apple machines back then, while they were still so anti networked machines?

IIRC Apple machines didn't even have a connection point of any sort.
Modem. Tie up the telephone line for hours. Not telemarketer calls. And the kids can't tell you to come get them. WIN-WIN
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Re: Windows 7, Paint, and the Snipping Tool

Post by klr » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:00 pm

Cormac wrote:
klr wrote:BBS = Bulletin board system

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_board_system

An ancient form of inter-computer communication, long before the days of the World Wide Web. Or so I've read.

That is what I thought... But how did one connect to a BBS on the Apple machines back then, while they were still so anti networked machines?

IIRC Apple machines didn't even have a connection point of any sort.
Modems. Real modems*. The sort that whistled when you fired them up.

*Broadband "modems" are anything but. :nazi:
God has no place within these walls, just like facts have no place within organized religion. - Superintendent Chalmers

It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner

The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson

:mob: :comp: :mob:

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Re: Windows 7, Paint, and the Snipping Tool

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:03 pm

klr wrote:
Cormac wrote:
klr wrote:BBS = Bulletin board system

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_board_system

An ancient form of inter-computer communication, long before the days of the World Wide Web. Or so I've read.

That is what I thought... But how did one connect to a BBS on the Apple machines back then, while they were still so anti networked machines?

IIRC Apple machines didn't even have a connection point of any sort.
Modems. Real modems*. The sort that whistled when you fired them up.

*Broadband "modems" are anything but. :nazi:
"Blessed be the Modulator/Demodulator, for It shall bring you porn. "
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Re: Windows 7, Paint, and the Snipping Tool

Post by klr » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:04 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote: ...

"Blessed be the Modulator/Demodulator, for It shall bring you porn. "
What was the old joke? "Beware of geeks bearing gifs". :lol:
God has no place within these walls, just like facts have no place within organized religion. - Superintendent Chalmers

It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner

The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson

:mob: :comp: :mob:

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Re: Windows 7, Paint, and the Snipping Tool

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:05 pm

klr wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote: ...

"Blessed be the Modulator/Demodulator, for It shall bring you porn. "
What was the old joke? "Beware of geeks bearing gifs". :lol:
"Interlaced gifs". :sigh:
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Re: Windows 7, Paint, and the Snipping Tool

Post by Cormac » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:20 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Cormac wrote:
klr wrote:BBS = Bulletin board system

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_board_system

An ancient form of inter-computer communication, long before the days of the World Wide Web. Or so I've read.

That is what I thought... But how did one connect to a BBS on the Apple machines back then, while they were still so anti networked machines?

IIRC Apple machines didn't even have a connection point of any sort.
Modem. Tie up the telephone line for hours. Not telemarketer calls. And the kids can't tell you to come get them. WIN-WIN
Yes, I know. I am of that generation. But I was sure that Apple were wedded to the standalone machine, with no connectivity at all, right up to the post '95 era - after the internet had already taken off...

Part of their love of walled gardens and their hatred of interoperability.
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Re: Windows 7, Paint, and the Snipping Tool

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:22 pm

Never bothered with Apples, I could get twice the machine for half the money with a PC.
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Re: Windows 7, Paint, and the Snipping Tool

Post by Cormac » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:27 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Never bothered with Apples, I could get twice the machine for half the money with a PC.
(Same here).

:)
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