Magick and the Occult

[electricwhiteboy]

Anyone interested in me explaining about Magick, the Occult or any other related subject ie Kabballah, tarot, Freemasonry, Alistair Crowley etc? I know this is a sceptics forum and I would approach any such essay from that point of view.

[Pappa]

Yes. As an added incentive, if you give us a seminar on Magick, I'll show you my magic wands. Ok, not much of an incentive, but better than nothing, right?

[JacksSmirkingRevenge]

Wasn't Alistair Crowley involved with L. Ron Hubbard at some point?

[Bella Fortuna]

I have a signed limited edition of some of Crowley's lousy poetry, would that help?

I also used to be a witch. (I know, )

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Is it true that any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science?

[MrFungus420]

Anyone interested in me explaining about Magick, the Occult or any other related subject ie Kabballah, tarot, Freemasonry, Alistair Crowley etc? I know this is a sceptics forum and I would approach any such essay from that point of view.

(disclaimer, I'm not saying anything about freemasonry due to ignorance)

How about from a Wiccan priest who made a study of ritual magick (including the Kabballah)?

It's crap.

It's people wanting something to be true so they convince themselves that it is.

[Bella Fortuna]

Ditto that from my experiences too.

[electricwhiteboy]

Wasn't Alistair Crowley involved with L. Ron Hubbard at some point?

Yes and no... the American branch of one Crowley's cults was taken over by Hubbard, much to the chagrin of a now frail Crowley back in England. This was how Scientology got started, the details are pretty vague as occultists and Scientologists don't see it in their best interests to be associated with either other, and no one really mentions it. The short of it is that Hubbard conned an already suggestible group of people into believing in another brand of bullshit.

[electricwhiteboy]

OK I'm working on an essay, what I'll start off with is what I understand magick to be, answer a few of the questions, and then if anyone can stomach it a bit about the "history" of magic and what the batshit insane New Agers believe.

My take on things is that magick and art are completely synonymous, that it cannot change the laws of the universe, and explains nothing about the material world that we actually live in, there is no objective philosophical truth in magic. Simply by using language and symbols that have particular associations, we can achieve certain effects.

And Pappa don't you dare get your wand out!

[Gawdzilla Sama]

OK I'm working on an essay, what I'll start off with is what I understand magick to be, answer a few of the questions, and then if anyone can stomach it a bit about the "history" of magic and what the batshit insane New Agers believe.

My take on things is that magick and art are completely synonymous, that it cannot change the laws of the universe, and explains nothing about the material world that we actually live in, there is no objective philosophical truth in magic. Simply by using language and symbols that have particular associations, we can achieve certain effects.

And Pappa don't you dare get your wand out!

A fun way to approach the issue would be to look at The Witches Hammer to see how the Inquisition defined magic.

[Bella Fortuna]

I have a copy of the Malleus Maleficarum... grim reading!

[electricwhiteboy]

A fun way to approach the issue would be to look at The Witches Hammer to see how the Inquisition defined magic.

Magic could be someone’s hens lay funny, soured milk, or a child being born with a club foot in the village. It might be as simple as being a very charming and persuasive person with a gift for language, the effect of a beautiful and libidinous redheaded woman, or being a bitter old spinster cursing at some figure of authority... Or the discovery that you possess a clitoris!

[Gawdzilla Sama]

A fun way to approach the issue would be to look at The Witches Hammer to see how the Inquisition defined magic.

Magic could be someone’s hens lay funny, soured milk, or a child being born with a club foot in the village. It might be as simple as being a very charming and persuasive person with a gift for language, the effect of a beautiful and libidinous redheaded woman, or being a bitter old spinster cursing at some figure of authority... Or the discovery that you possess a clitoris!

Witches can steal a man's penis.

Seriously, witches are still be ostracized and even killed in Africa, they take it very seriously.

[Bella Fortuna]

Have you studied Salem at all? I wrote a paper on that once - as usual, it boils down to social strife and enmity between individuals. The accusers inevitably have some personal grudge against the accused, and sympathetic hysteria takes off from there...

[Bella Fortuna]

Witches can steal a man's penis.

Well there's the appeal it had to me in a nutshell...