Universal Electric Cars & Vans - the Implications

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Re: Universal Electric Cars & Vans - the Implications

Post by Rum » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:04 pm

Edit: Please ignore this incompetency of a post and move on to the next - and intended - one.
Last edited by Rum on Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Universal Electric Cars & Vans - the Implications

Post by Rum » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:05 pm

Rum wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:04 pm
It seems BP are in the car energy business now - not just the oil and gas business. Interesting (as is the Fully Charged Youtube channel).


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Re: Universal Electric Cars & Vans - the Implications

Post by Alan B » Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:26 pm

I came across a news item where a manufacturer (Fisker) is considering a 'one minute' charge EV battery. So, I thought, if that was realised as a 30kWh battery (e.g. Nissan LEAF) with a charging voltage of about 400v, then that would require a 1.8 Megawatt charger delivering about 4,500 Amps. for one minute. :prof:

Now, imagine a forecourt with 12 such chargers... :shock:

There's a penalty to pay with all this 'short charge time' hype which they are not really letting on...
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Re: Universal Electric Cars & Vans - the Implications

Post by laklak » Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:49 pm

Apparently there's an emerging market for used Li car batteries, was just reading about a guy who used them in his boat. Lighter and more capacity than new lead/acid or AGMs, and a lot cheaper. Article said most vehicle batteries will still hold about 75% when they're replaced, and given that they can be up to 80% discharged and still produce full voltage they might be a serious consideration for marine applications. Plus they weigh a fuckton less than the AGMs I have in there now, so I could put in a larger bank and spend more time off the genny.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Universal Electric Cars & Vans - the Implications

Post by Rum » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:40 pm

I’m looking to buy a lawn mower shortly as our new place has a..er...lawn.

I see they sell cordless battery driven ones these days. Damned expensive mind. I’ll probably risk electrocuting myself with a corded one for now. It isn’t a very big lawn mind you.

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Re: Universal Electric Cars & Vans - the Implications

Post by Scot Dutchy » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:46 pm

I small Fly-Mo should do.

Robotic and cordless:

Image
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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Re: Universal Electric Cars & Vans - the Implications

Post by laklak » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:52 pm

Lot easier with a riding mower.
V8 riding mower.jpg
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Universal Electric Cars & Vans - the Implications

Post by Scot Dutchy » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:56 pm

I dont think Rum has a acre to mow.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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Re: Universal Electric Cars & Vans - the Implications

Post by Rum » Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:40 pm

Not really - more like a handkerchief.

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Re: Universal Electric Cars & Vans - the Implications

Post by Alan B » Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:34 pm

In my OP, section 1h. has been re-written. After looking at the Nissan website it would appear that the Nissan guy and I were talking at cross-purposes. I think he was thinking about the 'old' 24kWh 7 hour charge battery, while I was concentrating on the 30kWh 5 hour charge item. With the latter battery the situation is even worse.
Revised para. 1h.:
h. On the assumption that all electric cars and vans are fitted with a 30kWh battery (e.g. Nissan LEAF or similar) and charged for five hours from empty to full from a 220v/240v ‘home’ source, it would require an extra 6kW per hour from each domestic supply per vehicle (Nissan’s figures). In order to supply 35 million such vehicles for ‘overnight’ charging, the additional national power generating capacity would need to be in the order of 210,000 Megawatts minimum per hour for the charging period (which would reduce as each battery reaches ‘full’ - some sooner than others). At maximum simultaneous usage this would be equivalent to more than 64 Hinkley Point C nuclear power stations at 3,260 Megawatts each. (Or one nuclear power station can charge only 544,000 such vehicles). And, of course, the domestic supply cabling to each road/street/district will need to be upgraded to accommodate the extra current drain of 26 Amperes per vehicle (assuming a 30kWh battery). Note: With a domestic supply of 115v, this current drain will be about 52 Amperes. If the charge time can be extended to ten hours, then the power and current drain can be halved.
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Re: Universal Electric Cars & Vans - the Implications

Post by laklak » Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:10 pm

The eco-warriors don't worry about generating capacity or actual coalface engineering issues, they just chirp "renewables!". Anyone disagreeing or pointing out the obvious infrastructure hurdles is shouted down as an Environmental Enemy who hates baby seals. NO NUKES! We're all going to have solar/wind/methane from compost heap generators, or something. It'll be GREEN, you see, and we'll have happy squirrels and birdies and stuff in our backyards. The level of general technological ignorance is stunning, but not particularly surprising in a population where (from a recent survey) over half the driving population can't change a flat tire. I used to argue with people about nuke plants, but finally just gave up. It's like talking to a Young Earth Creationist, they lack the requisite education to understand even very basic points. I remember one particular hippy dippy contend that for the price of one nuke plant you could equip every home in Florida with solar. I asked to see his work but he never produced it.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Universal Electric Cars & Vans - the Implications

Post by Alan B » Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:29 pm

Never mind, Lak. When global warming really starts to take hold and Florida is submerged together with other coast-line areas, there will be less need for all that extra cabling...

Save money! :whistle:
Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power - Eric Hoffer.
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Re: Universal Electric Cars & Vans - the Implications

Post by Alan B » Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:18 pm

How interesting. Could this be a coincidence?
https://news.sky.com/story/new-homes-co ... s-11430869
Plans to install more charge points for electric vehicles in a bid to boost ultra-low emission models will be announced today.
Transport Secretary Chris Grayling will unveil the proposals that could make it easier to recharge electric vehicles than refuel petrol or diesel cars with the hundreds of thousands new charge points.
The government's Road to Zero Strategy will also assess whether new homes and offices should be required to install charge points as it includes more money to fund charging infrastructure.
"The Road to Zero Strategy, combined with the measures we've already introduced, will mean Britain now has one of the most comprehensive support packages for zero-emission vehicles in the world," Mr Grayling will say.
"We want the UK to become the best country in the world in which to develop and manufacture zero-emission vehicles.
And only a couple of weeks after I posted my article...

Sometimes, when I do a search, I find myself reading something from RatSkep & Ratz. On one occasion I found myself linked to one of my posts on RDF.
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Re: Universal Electric Cars & Vans - the Implications

Post by laklak » Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:35 pm

Alan B wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:29 pm
Never mind, Lak. When global warming really starts to take hold and Florida is submerged together with other coast-line areas, there will be less need for all that extra cabling...

Save money! :whistle:
I'll be on the boat, running my generator off old fryer oil.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Universal Electric Cars & Vans - the Implications

Post by Alan B » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:34 am

An article, Battery University BU-1003, details the sizes of batteries for the most common EVs together with charging times and charger powers for each size for 115v and 230v domestic supplies.

For the larger batteries, it also warns that domestic chores, cooking and clothes-drying, should be finished before charging begins in order to prevent overloading the supply...

Interesting observation from the above link:
Driving an EV only delivers optimal environmental benefit when charging with renewable resources. Burning coal and fossil fuel to generate electricity, as is done in many countries, does not reduce greenhouse gases. In the US, 50 percent of electricity is generated by burning coal, 20 percent by natural gas and 20 percent by nuclear energy. Renewable energy by hydro is 8 percent and solar/wind energy is only 2 percent.

Going electric also begs the question, “Who will pay for the roads in the absence of fuel tax?” Governments spend billions on road maintenance and expansions; the EV, and in part the PHEV, can use the infrastructure for free. This is unfair for folks using public transport as they pay double: first paying income tax to support the road infrastructures and second in purchasing the train fare.

The high cost of the EV against the lure of cheap and readily available fossil fuel will slow the transition to clean driving. Government subsidies may be needed to make “green” cars affordable to the masses, but many argue that such handouts should be directed towards better public transportation, systems that had been ignored in North America since the 1950s.
Last edited by Alan B on Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power - Eric Hoffer.
I have NO BELIEF in the existence of a God or gods. I do not have to offer proof nor do I have to determine absence of proof because I do not ASSERT that a God does or does not or gods do or do not exist.

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