Have we won?
- Gerald McGrew
- Posts: 611
- Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:32 pm
- About me: Fisker of Men
- Location: Pacific Northwest
- Contact:
Have we won?
As someone who spent a lot of time on the evolution v creationism battles over the last 20 years, I've noticed that in the last 5 years or so the issue seems to have largely gone off the radar. In the message boards that are still around (both Christian and secular) it's barely debated, if at all. Just look at this sub-forum...it's pretty much dead. Websites specifically dedicated to countering creationist talking points such as talkorigins and pandasthumb have gone silent, seemingly because there just isn't much to talk about.
Surveys have shown that younger Americans accept the reality of evolution at pretty much the same rate as the rest of the developed world. Thanks to national focus on science education by organizations like the NCSE, evolution is more widely taught than ever, even in the deep south.
So is it over? Have we advocates of science won? AFAICT there isn't any sort of public debate over teaching creationism, nor is there any real debate about whether evolution should be taught. For sure there's still work to do in some parts of the country (mostly the south and interior west) where even though evolution is officially required, teachers don't teach it either because it's "too controversial" or they don't believe it themselves, but big picture-wise.....
Surveys have shown that younger Americans accept the reality of evolution at pretty much the same rate as the rest of the developed world. Thanks to national focus on science education by organizations like the NCSE, evolution is more widely taught than ever, even in the deep south.
So is it over? Have we advocates of science won? AFAICT there isn't any sort of public debate over teaching creationism, nor is there any real debate about whether evolution should be taught. For sure there's still work to do in some parts of the country (mostly the south and interior west) where even though evolution is officially required, teachers don't teach it either because it's "too controversial" or they don't believe it themselves, but big picture-wise.....
If you don't like being called "stupid", then stop saying stupid things.
- JimC
- The sentimental bloke
- Posts: 73138
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
- About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Re: Have we won?
G'day, Gerald, good to hear from you again. I'm not sure an unequivocal "we won" can be stated, but at the very least, creationists are not making any real inroads into the zeitgeist. There will be pockets of rusted-on anti-evolutionists in many places (not just the US), and they probably won't go away, but they are perhaps no longer capable of making a significant dent in a general appreciation of science in the main strands of world culture.
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!
And my gin!
- laklak
- Posts: 20988
- Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:07 pm
- About me: My preferred pronoun is "Massah"
- Location: Tannhauser Gate
- Contact:
Re: Have we won?
They're still spewing WL Craig and Bananaman on FB.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.
- Gerald McGrew
- Posts: 611
- Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:32 pm
- About me: Fisker of Men
- Location: Pacific Northwest
- Contact:
Re: Have we won?
Thanks!
I agree. Science advocates have to remain vigilant for sure, because there will always be flare-ups where a school will try and sneak creationism in. So when that happens and a parent or student complains, someone needs to be there to help. But as you note, on a national scale I don't see any way for them to accomplish much of anything. Too many court losses and precendents.I'm not sure an unequivocal "we won" can be stated, but at the very least, creationists are not making any real inroads into the zeitgeist. There will be pockets of rusted-on anti-evolutionists in many places (not just the US), and they probably won't go away, but they are perhaps no longer capable of making a significant dent in a general appreciation of science in the main strands of world culture.
If you don't like being called "stupid", then stop saying stupid things.
- Gerald McGrew
- Posts: 611
- Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:32 pm
- About me: Fisker of Men
- Location: Pacific Northwest
- Contact:
Re: Have we won?
Oh, I'm quite sure creationism will never truly die out. It'll be like flat-earthism in that it'll persist on social media. Heck, I still hear it regularly on Christian radio where I live. Conservative Christians will never stop bashing evolution and believing in creationism, but hopefully it'll just stay there, as a religious belief.
If you don't like being called "stupid", then stop saying stupid things.
Re: Have we won?
Today there are much more interesting things to get riled up about on the internet than creationism. Why discuss boring stuff when you can take part in the culture wars and even have real popular scientists on your side?
- Gerald McGrew
- Posts: 611
- Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:32 pm
- About me: Fisker of Men
- Location: Pacific Northwest
- Contact:
Re: Have we won?
I think part of that is due to how creationists haven't come up with anything new for quite a while now. A lot of their talking points are decades old and have been debunked countless times, so going 'round the same circles is indeed quite boring. Whatever "debate" there was has long since become stale and repetitive, which makes the whole thing....as you note...."boring".
I for one welcome the boredom!
If you don't like being called "stupid", then stop saying stupid things.
- Seabass
- Posts: 7339
- Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:32 pm
- About me: Pluviophile
- Location: Covidiocracy
- Contact:
Re: Have we won?
I think the creationists have moved on to climate denial, covid denial, anti-mask-ism, and Trumpism.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." —Voltaire
"They want to take away your hamburgers. This is what Stalin dreamt about but never achieved." —Sebastian Gorka
"They want to take away your hamburgers. This is what Stalin dreamt about but never achieved." —Sebastian Gorka
- pErvinalia
- On the good stuff
- Posts: 59406
- Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
- About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
- Location: dystopia
- Contact:
Re: Have we won?
Coincidentally on another platform I just saw (and addressed) a "if humans came from monkeys, how come there's still monkeys around" question.
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
- JimC
- The sentimental bloke
- Posts: 73138
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
- About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Re: Have we won?
If we keep destroying natural environments, they won't be around much longer...
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!
And my gin!
- Brian Peacock
- Tipping cows since 1946
- Posts: 38083
- Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 am
- About me: Ablate me:
- Location: Location: Location:
- Contact:
Re: Have we won?
Darwin and Wallace won. It just took a while for people to catch on.
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.
.
"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.
Details on how to do that can be found here.
.
"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
- rainbow
- Posts: 13534
- Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:10 am
- About me: Egal wie dicht du bist, Goethe war Dichter
- Location: Africa
- Contact:
Re: Have we won?
True. If humans have evolved intelligence why are Creationists still around?pErvinalia wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:12 amCoincidentally on another platform I just saw (and addressed) a "if humans came from monkeys, how come there's still monkeys around" question.
Gotcha!
You can't answer that one can you?
I call bullshit - Alfred E Einstein
BArF−4
BArF−4
Re: Have we won?
If a perfect being created us, why are we designed so poorly?
Sincerely,
Joe's bum knee
Sincerely,
Joe's bum knee
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
"Wisdom requires a flexible mind." - Dan Carlin
"If you vote for idiots, idiots will run the country." - Dr. Kori Schake
"Wisdom requires a flexible mind." - Dan Carlin
"If you vote for idiots, idiots will run the country." - Dr. Kori Schake
- laklak
- Posts: 20988
- Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:07 pm
- About me: My preferred pronoun is "Massah"
- Location: Tannhauser Gate
- Contact:
Re: Have we won?
Evidently God didn't listen in mechanical engineering class.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.
- Svartalf
- Offensive Grail Keeper
- Posts: 40388
- Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
- Location: Paris France
- Contact:
Re: Have we won?
we'll have won when the last creationis will have been hanged with the guts of the last religious fanatic.
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug
PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping
PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests