Have we won?

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Gerald McGrew
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Have we won?

Post by Gerald McGrew » Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:14 pm

As someone who spent a lot of time on the evolution v creationism battles over the last 20 years, I've noticed that in the last 5 years or so the issue seems to have largely gone off the radar. In the message boards that are still around (both Christian and secular) it's barely debated, if at all. Just look at this sub-forum...it's pretty much dead. Websites specifically dedicated to countering creationist talking points such as talkorigins and pandasthumb have gone silent, seemingly because there just isn't much to talk about.

Surveys have shown that younger Americans accept the reality of evolution at pretty much the same rate as the rest of the developed world. Thanks to national focus on science education by organizations like the NCSE, evolution is more widely taught than ever, even in the deep south.

So is it over? Have we advocates of science won? AFAICT there isn't any sort of public debate over teaching creationism, nor is there any real debate about whether evolution should be taught. For sure there's still work to do in some parts of the country (mostly the south and interior west) where even though evolution is officially required, teachers don't teach it either because it's "too controversial" or they don't believe it themselves, but big picture-wise.....

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Re: Have we won?

Post by JimC » Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:25 pm

G'day, Gerald, good to hear from you again. I'm not sure an unequivocal "we won" can be stated, but at the very least, creationists are not making any real inroads into the zeitgeist. There will be pockets of rusted-on anti-evolutionists in many places (not just the US), and they probably won't go away, but they are perhaps no longer capable of making a significant dent in a general appreciation of science in the main strands of world culture.
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Re: Have we won?

Post by laklak » Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:29 pm

They're still spewing WL Craig and Bananaman on FB.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Gerald McGrew
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Re: Have we won?

Post by Gerald McGrew » Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:37 pm

JimC wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:25 pm
G'day, Gerald, good to hear from you again.
Thanks!
I'm not sure an unequivocal "we won" can be stated, but at the very least, creationists are not making any real inroads into the zeitgeist. There will be pockets of rusted-on anti-evolutionists in many places (not just the US), and they probably won't go away, but they are perhaps no longer capable of making a significant dent in a general appreciation of science in the main strands of world culture.
I agree. Science advocates have to remain vigilant for sure, because there will always be flare-ups where a school will try and sneak creationism in. So when that happens and a parent or student complains, someone needs to be there to help. But as you note, on a national scale I don't see any way for them to accomplish much of anything. Too many court losses and precendents.
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Re: Have we won?

Post by Gerald McGrew » Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:41 pm

laklak wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:29 pm
They're still spewing WL Craig and Bananaman on FB.
Oh, I'm quite sure creationism will never truly die out. It'll be like flat-earthism in that it'll persist on social media. Heck, I still hear it regularly on Christian radio where I live. Conservative Christians will never stop bashing evolution and believing in creationism, but hopefully it'll just stay there, as a religious belief.
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Re: Have we won?

Post by NineBerry » Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:43 pm

Today there are much more interesting things to get riled up about on the internet than creationism. Why discuss boring stuff when you can take part in the culture wars and even have real popular scientists on your side?

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Re: Have we won?

Post by Gerald McGrew » Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:48 pm

NineBerry wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:43 pm
Today there are much more interesting things to get riled up about on the internet than creationism. Why discuss boring stuff when you can take part in the culture wars and even have real popular scientists on your side?
I think part of that is due to how creationists haven't come up with anything new for quite a while now. A lot of their talking points are decades old and have been debunked countless times, so going 'round the same circles is indeed quite boring. Whatever "debate" there was has long since become stale and repetitive, which makes the whole thing....as you note...."boring".

I for one welcome the boredom! :smoke:
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Re: Have we won?

Post by Seabass » Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:56 pm

I think the creationists have moved on to climate denial, covid denial, anti-mask-ism, and Trumpism.
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Re: Have we won?

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:12 am

Coincidentally on another platform I just saw (and addressed) a "if humans came from monkeys, how come there's still monkeys around" question.
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Re: Have we won?

Post by JimC » Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:05 am

If we keep destroying natural environments, they won't be around much longer...
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Re: Have we won?

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:19 am

Darwin and Wallace won. It just took a while for people to catch on.
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Re: Have we won?

Post by rainbow » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:28 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:12 am
Coincidentally on another platform I just saw (and addressed) a "if humans came from monkeys, how come there's still monkeys around" question.
True. If humans have evolved intelligence why are Creationists still around?

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Re: Have we won?

Post by Joe » Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:07 pm

If a perfect being created us, why are we designed so poorly?

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Re: Have we won?

Post by laklak » Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:32 pm

Evidently God didn't listen in mechanical engineering class.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Have we won?

Post by Svartalf » Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:04 pm

we'll have won when the last creationis will have been hanged with the guts of the last religious fanatic.
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