The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

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Re: The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

Post by Audley Strange » Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:56 pm

At this point I'm beginning to see it like Lord of the Flies meets a mental health facility.
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Re: The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

Post by Clinton Huxley » Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:58 pm

An woe betide you if you open a thread in the wrong bit of the forum. That's worse than kicking a lesbian.
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Re: The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

Post by borealis » Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:59 pm

"If you have received this card, you have done something wildly inapropriate..."

...like misspelling inappropriate? :awesome:

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Re: The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

Post by Jaygray » Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:01 pm

Bella Fortuna wrote:http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=795

which links to the origin here http://singlevoice.net/redyellow-card-project/



Howzabout alerting security/management of the location, if not the police, if there is assault taking place? This is just bizarre.
I hope those things are printed on rice-paper, because my first instinct would be to insist that the presenter eats it. :food:

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Re: The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

Post by Coito ergo sum » Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:08 pm

Clinton Huxley wrote:It's a bit like Dungeons and Dragons
You can be 'main forum' level in some areas and 'education forum' level in others.
Someone should suggest that D&D system to them, without mentioning it by name.

Someone should go there and suggest as a "constructive alternative" that each person adopt or be assigned a category/disposition. Like -- people could "trigger warn" others of their propensity to say offensive things, right? "Chaotic Evil" means they really don't give a shit and they are offensive purposefully. Lawful Evil means they try to be honorable, but have their innate privilege causes them to act offensively. Lawful Good would signify that you can be relied upon to never say something rude or obnoxious. Chaotic Good means you mess up once in a while, but have good intentions. And, so on....that can be worn or signified by color on a badge, so people who want to avoid Evil characters can do so by looking at the badges.

Then, folks can also be assigned "offense points" which can be put on a badge, which shows how sensitive to offense you are. Someone with 100 offense points can take a lot of ribbing and rudeness without losing it. But, someone maybe with 5 offense points would lose it after someone wears an insulting t-shirt.

If I walk in, all Neutral Evil, and say something off-color, a Lawful Good Skepchick could hand me a note that says "5 offense points" or something. Then I can look at her card and see how many offense points are left. If I use up all her offense points, then she's considered "Offended" and I go up a level, showing that I have gotten worse.....

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Re: The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

Post by Coito ergo sum » Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:10 pm

Audley Strange wrote:At this point I'm beginning to see it like Lord of the Flies meets a mental health facility.

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Re: The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

Post by hadespussercats » Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:10 pm

From the creator's website (re Defcon cards)
If the opportunity arises to hand one out, simply chose which one you feel is appropriate, pull one out, and hand it to the perpetrator. At this point I recommend calmly walking away. You have said what you need to say and are under no obligation to discuss anything further. Congratulations! You’ve just carded someone!
Yes, this is exactly how swingers cards work. IIRC, the woman who received one of those was angry the couple didn't hang around and let her respond. But the point of the cards is to be non-confrontational.

Incidentally, I think the swingers shouldn't have handed Elise (I think that was her name?) that card at her meet and greet after speaking-- I don't think that sort of thing is appropriate unless the atmosphere is clearly social, and Elise was there to work. But I've discussed my feelings on that in the relevant thread, and I don't want to get into it again.

BUT-- the tactics here are exactly the same. Except that one can't actually walk away from an internet discussion, so the cards in fact become quite confrontational. In fact, they become more like a public shaming, than a "here, I don't like what you did but I don't want to make a scene-- please read this at your leisure" sort of thing.
Out of the people that ever were, almost all of them are dead.
There are way more dead people, and you're all gonna die
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Like that's mostly what you're ever gonna be.
You're just dead people that didn't die yet.
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Re: The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

Post by Coito ergo sum » Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:13 pm

Oh, they clearly are intended as public shaming, and guilt by accusation.

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Re: The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

Post by hadespussercats » Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:13 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:
Clinton Huxley wrote:It's a bit like Dungeons and Dragons
You can be 'main forum' level in some areas and 'education forum' level in others.
Someone should suggest that D&D system to them, without mentioning it by name.

Someone should go there and suggest as a "constructive alternative" that each person adopt or be assigned a category/disposition. Like -- people could "trigger warn" others of their propensity to say offensive things, right? "Chaotic Evil" means they really don't give a shit and they are offensive purposefully. Lawful Evil means they try to be honorable, but have their innate privilege causes them to act offensively. Lawful Good would signify that you can be relied upon to never say something rude or obnoxious. Chaotic Good means you mess up once in a while, but have good intentions. And, so on....that can be worn or signified by color on a badge, so people who want to avoid Evil characters can do so by looking at the badges.

Then, folks can also be assigned "offense points" which can be put on a badge, which shows how sensitive to offense you are. Someone with 100 offense points can take a lot of ribbing and rudeness without losing it. But, someone maybe with 5 offense points would lose it after someone wears an insulting t-shirt.

If I walk in, all Neutral Evil, and say something off-color, a Lawful Good Skepchick could hand me a note that says "5 offense points" or something. Then I can look at her card and see how many offense points are left. If I use up all her offense points, then she's considered "Offended" and I go up a level, showing that I have gotten worse.....
Dork.
Out of the people that ever were, almost all of them are dead.
There are way more dead people, and you're all gonna die
and then you're gonna be dead for way longer than you're alive.
Like that's mostly what you're ever gonna be.
You're just dead people that didn't die yet.
--Louis C.K.
The green careening planet
spins blindly in the dark
so close to annihilation.

Listen. No one listens. Meow.

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Re: The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

Post by Coito ergo sum » Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:15 pm

Yup. :-)

But, wait -- I'm handing you a red card for calling me names based on denigration of one sex's genitals.... Atheism+ does not approve....

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Re: The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

Post by Azathoth » Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:16 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:
Clinton Huxley wrote:It's a bit like Dungeons and Dragons
You can be 'main forum' level in some areas and 'education forum' level in others.
Someone should suggest that D&D system to them, without mentioning it by name.

Someone should go there and suggest as a "constructive alternative" that each person adopt or be assigned a category/disposition. Like -- people could "trigger warn" others of their propensity to say offensive things, right? "Chaotic Evil" means they really don't give a shit and they are offensive purposefully. Lawful Evil means they try to be honorable, but have their innate privilege causes them to act offensively. Lawful Good would signify that you can be relied upon to never say something rude or obnoxious. Chaotic Good means you mess up once in a while, but have good intentions. And, so on....that can be worn or signified by color on a badge, so people who want to avoid Evil characters can do so by looking at the badges.

Then, folks can also be assigned "offense points" which can be put on a badge, which shows how sensitive to offense you are. Someone with 100 offense points can take a lot of ribbing and rudeness without losing it. But, someone maybe with 5 offense points would lose it after someone wears an insulting t-shirt.

If I walk in, all Neutral Evil, and say something off-color, a Lawful Good Skepchick could hand me a note that says "5 offense points" or something. Then I can look at her card and see how many offense points are left. If I use up all her offense points, then she's considered "Offended" and I go up a level, showing that I have gotten worse.....
All well and good until a chaos neutral turns up :dance:
Outside the ordered universe is that amorphous blight of nethermost confusion which blasphemes and bubbles at the center of all infinity—the boundless daemon sultan Azathoth, whose name no lips dare speak aloud, and who gnaws hungrily in inconceivable, unlighted chambers beyond time and space amidst the muffled, maddening beating of vile drums and the thin monotonous whine of accursed flutes.

Code: Select all

// Replaces with spaces the braces in cases where braces in places cause stasis 
   $str = str_replace(array("\{","\}")," ",$str);

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Re: The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

Post by Coito ergo sum » Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:19 pm

They ought to tag them with a red "H" when they harass, and any future transgressions would result in banishment.



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Re: The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

Post by hadespussercats » Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:19 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:Yup. :-)

But, wait -- I'm handing you a red card for calling me names based on denigration of one sex's genitals.... Atheism+ does not approve....
Is that what "dork" comes from? Dorks and norks?

Anyway, thanks for the card. You're sweet! Red's my color. :FIO:
Out of the people that ever were, almost all of them are dead.
There are way more dead people, and you're all gonna die
and then you're gonna be dead for way longer than you're alive.
Like that's mostly what you're ever gonna be.
You're just dead people that didn't die yet.
--Louis C.K.
The green careening planet
spins blindly in the dark
so close to annihilation.

Listen. No one listens. Meow.

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Re: The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

Post by Red Celt » Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:21 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:They ought to tag them with a red "H" when they harass
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Re: The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

Post by Bella Fortuna » Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:22 pm

hadespussercats wrote:From the creator's website (re Defcon cards)
If the opportunity arises to hand one out, simply chose which one you feel is appropriate, pull one out, and hand it to the perpetrator. At this point I recommend calmly walking away. You have said what you need to say and are under no obligation to discuss anything further. Congratulations! You’ve just carded someone!
Yes, this is exactly how swingers cards work. IIRC, the woman who received one of those was angry the couple didn't hang around and let her respond. But the point of the cards is to be non-confrontational.

Incidentally, I think the swingers shouldn't have handed Elise (I think that was her name?) that card at her meet and greet after speaking-- I don't think that sort of thing is appropriate unless the atmosphere is clearly social, and Elise was there to work. But I've discussed my feelings on that in the relevant thread, and I don't want to get into it again.

BUT-- the tactics here are exactly the same. Except that one can't actually walk away from an internet discussion, so the cards in fact become quite confrontational. In fact, they become more like a public shaming, than a "here, I don't like what you did but I don't want to make a scene-- please read this at your leisure" sort of thing.
I fully agree that the swingers' card thing was out of place and they shouldn't have done that to her. I think if someone had done that to me I'd have laughed it off with a head-shake, but I suppose that's beside the point.

These cards, far from being non-confrontational, simply drip with self-righteous passive-aggressiveness. The equation of possible real harassment or assault with possibly being mildly hit on (and everything in between) is a mockery of the former.
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