RD.net to be re-revamped!

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lordpasternack
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Re: RD.net to be re-revamped!

Post by lordpasternack » Mon May 14, 2012 6:45 pm

Rum wrote:What exactly are you doing all this for LP?


Thank you for asking! 



There are these things called integrity, credibility, truthfulness and honesty, and they kind of matter to me. Or to completely co-opt the words of Greta Christina (who happened to be speaking about Edwina Rogers here):


I want the public faces of atheism to represent the values of the atheist community. I want the public faces of atheism to freaking well share the values of the atheist community. Including, above all else, the values of honesty and truth. I do not want the public image of atheism to be a series of Machiavellian plays for power at the expense of the things we actually care about. I do not want atheism represented by someone who is so transparently willing to deceive, dodge, and flat-out lie.
Or Ophelia Benson's words - again co-opted:
We’ve been around this mulberry tree before, more than once, when wrangling with all the people who rush to give The Atheist Movement advice on how to be better at manipulating and managing and persuading. We have this thing about truth and honesty and accuracy and not bullshitting.
My emphasis.

RDFRS is a mess and an embarrassment, with a few redeeming features. There's bullshit, stupidity, dishonesty, deception, cynical manipulation, conflicts of interest and intelligence-insulting PR drives coming out of it. And given all that it's founder claims are the aims of the charity - there is almost enough hypocrisy to sicken Ken Ham.

Does that get my blood running? Yeah… Yeah, it does, actually… :coffee:
Then they for sudden joy did weep,
And I for sorrow sung,
That such a king should play bo-peep,
And go the fools among.
Prithee, nuncle, keep a schoolmaster that can teach
thy fool to lie: I would fain learn to lie.

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Re: RD.net to be re-revamped!

Post by Rum » Mon May 14, 2012 7:19 pm

Well you might be surprised to know that integrity, credibility, truthfulness and honesty, all kind of matter to me too. However they aren't always best served trying to fix something I have absolutely no influence or control over.

However good luck Ms Quixote.

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Re: RD.net to be re-revamped!

Post by Brian Peacock » Mon May 14, 2012 7:38 pm

No doubt the redesign will be guided by the incentive to moneterise the site and to use its visitors as handy marketing units - it's the modern way.
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Re: RD.net to be re-revamped!

Post by klr » Mon May 14, 2012 7:41 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:No doubt the redesign will be guided by the incentive to moneterise the site and to use its visitors as handy marketing units - it's the modern way.
That measures 9.47 on the management buzz word scale. :lol:
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Re: RD.net to be re-revamped!

Post by Pappa » Mon May 14, 2012 8:29 pm

LP, I admire your perseverance in much of this... but I wonder just how professional you expect RDFRS to be. They're a small organisation, some of their work done by volunteers. They expanded quite quickly from a tiny organisation to take on a few more staff when required. Any charitable organisation is legally entitled to be fairly frivilous with money, and I don't think they were or are anywhere near as frivolous or irresponsible as very many other charitable organisations. They have noble aims and have done a pretty good job in general.

I don't understand why you feel the need to be publicising knowledge that suggests Dawkins may have been having an affair. Yes, the court docs you've quoted imply that may be the case, but you've chosen to back up those remarks with some tittle-tattle that an ex-employee told you. Not only do I think that's below the belt, but also an invasion of Dawkins' privacy. So what if he had an affair? He's entitled to a private life and could probably do without the negative press that may result from you posting this stuff.
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Re: RD.net to be re-revamped!

Post by lordpasternack » Mon May 14, 2012 9:31 pm

One's sex-life is like one's religion - I'll respect it as your private life if you keep it in your private life. If it becomes a conflict of interest that affects the impartiality of decisions made in your organisation, you've brought it out in public, in an area it shouldn't be, and it's fair game. Particularly if you're presuming to build a charity.

Perhaps one of the things that has most grated Paula Kirby in particular about me, is that I really don't give a toss about Richard's or RDFRS's "PR". And that's because I've always been more bothered about their actual credibility.

I'd react much the same if it were shown he was hiring family relatives, and failing to deal with their incompetences and apparent dishonesty - except of course there's arguably more conflict of interest in mixing romance in with professional duties.
Then they for sudden joy did weep,
And I for sorrow sung,
That such a king should play bo-peep,
And go the fools among.
Prithee, nuncle, keep a schoolmaster that can teach
thy fool to lie: I would fain learn to lie.

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Re: RD.net to be re-revamped!

Post by Rum » Mon May 14, 2012 9:47 pm

That's the way the world is. People have affairs with all sorts of other people. Sometimes it is relevant and important, other times not. I would suggest not in this case.

Are you sure your well known crush on RD isn't a factor in all this?

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Re: RD.net to be re-revamped!

Post by lordpasternack » Mon May 14, 2012 11:21 pm

Rum wrote:That's the way the world is. People have affairs with all sorts of other people. Sometimes it is relevant and important, other times not. I would suggest not in this case.
I would suggest it is in this case - but obviously I'm dealing again with the fact that I have an internal narrative of the situation, and my own helicopter view of the situation - which you don't share, and which I unfortunately can't just phwoomp into your mind.

I have seen things suggestive of Ms Cornwell being wilfully, weirdly, calculatedly dishonest and deceitful - all seemingly with a view to protecting her own PR and promoting her own public image. I've heard weirder, maddening things that at least fit the same pattern, which I won't discuss just now, and can't substantiate. I'm told things are proceeding and cogs are turning in places, and evidence of this and various other sordid mishaps will most definitely come out. I probably should have bided my time and watched and waited. I get very frustrated and impatient.
Are you sure your well known crush on RD isn't a factor in all this?
A factor, yes - but I hounded after Josh Timonen (with some justification, even if the embezzlement charge was unsound) - and he wasn't shagging Dawkins, to the very best of my knowledge - if you mean to imply that this is some kind of base sexual jealousy. I do agree that it's quite difficult to avoid the charge - because if I ever want to address those at the top of both of his charities over any issue, I invariably find myself facing women that Richard is reported to be shagging. Perhaps that says a little more about him than me? Are we sure his well-known crushes aren't a factor in X, Y, Z, etc.?

I'm not jealous of anybody in RDFRS and/or intimately involved with Richard. I still like and respect Paula Kirby for a start - even though she angered me, and she might think I'm a total fruitloop, for all I know. I think she's fundamentally nice, and clever and interesting - and I'd trust her with my wallet and house keys - even if I wouldn't trust her to get them posted back to me in under 7 weeks.

But if what I am seeing is accurate, and what I'm told is true, with regards to certain others - I wouldn't be leaving my drinks unattended around them. That's how it is.

My emotions regarding Richard playing out here are a mixture of exasperation, disappointment, and a lot of rancour about people possibly wilfully misleading him to their own ends. Just because I have the tact, diplomacy and subtlety of a bulldozer doesn't mean I'm not noble. I've said it to others and I'll say it here. I would have chewed on this situation no matter who was involved - it's just that if it were anyone else, I'd have probably just written it off and moved on by now.
Then they for sudden joy did weep,
And I for sorrow sung,
That such a king should play bo-peep,
And go the fools among.
Prithee, nuncle, keep a schoolmaster that can teach
thy fool to lie: I would fain learn to lie.

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Re: RD.net to be re-revamped!

Post by lordpasternack » Tue May 15, 2012 9:20 am

And Pappa - if they can't manage a basic standard of professionalism at their current small size - including honesty, transparency, responding to queries and complaints in good time, and hiring and disciplining staff through proper procedures - then they're never going to have the luxury of trying to achieve these things on the grander scale that they like to fantasise about.

Also - let's not forget that they laid off a dedicated and mostly competent team of volunteers two years ago - quite abruptly and rudely - only thanking them tepidly as an afterthought. They may have a busier/more distracting schedule as a result. I daresay they ought to complain to the management team who landed them in that shit. I daresay they should find some better management. I daresay that the fact that Richard's been shagging some of the current lot, is rather affecting the impartiality of his judgement somewhat in that area.

And I've no idea what you're talking about with regards to being frivolous with money - since my gripes with RDFRS have invariably boiled down to exasperation at poor management, incompetence, inconsistency and dishonesty.
Then they for sudden joy did weep,
And I for sorrow sung,
That such a king should play bo-peep,
And go the fools among.
Prithee, nuncle, keep a schoolmaster that can teach
thy fool to lie: I would fain learn to lie.

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Re: RD.net to be re-revamped!

Post by Clinton Huxley » Tue May 15, 2012 9:28 am

RDRFS may be a shambles, X may have had an affair with Y but as far as I know, no-one died. It all looks like a massive amount of effort invested in something largely pointless. In the grand scheme of things, who cares?

A futile quest.
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Re: RD.net to be re-revamped!

Post by Clinton Huxley » Tue May 15, 2012 9:36 am

The public faces of atheism? Public face of not believing in the existence of something?
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I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"

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Re: RD.net to be re-revamped!

Post by lordpasternack » Tue May 15, 2012 10:05 am

Clinton Huxley wrote:The public faces of atheism? Public face of not believing in the existence of something?
What about the public faces of rational-sceptical-secular-ethical-atheism, then?

Bit of a mouthful - but I do think it's hard to ignore that, as a certain breed of atheist/rationalist - though hard to define - we happen to share a lot of common ground in opinions and sentiments, are here as a sort of community, and can be mobilised as a sort of movement for certain issues.
Then they for sudden joy did weep,
And I for sorrow sung,
That such a king should play bo-peep,
And go the fools among.
Prithee, nuncle, keep a schoolmaster that can teach
thy fool to lie: I would fain learn to lie.

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Re: RD.net to be re-revamped!

Post by Clinton Huxley » Tue May 15, 2012 10:15 am

lordpasternack wrote:
Clinton Huxley wrote:The public faces of atheism? Public face of not believing in the existence of something?
What about the public faces of rational-sceptical-secular-ethical-atheism, then?

Bit of a mouthful - but I do think it's hard to ignore that, as a certain breed of atheist/rationalist - though hard to define - we happen to share a lot of common ground in opinions and sentiments, are here as a sort of community, and can be mobilised as a sort of movement for certain issues.
I think sceptical covers it.
"I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"

AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!

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Re: RD.net to be re-revamped!

Post by lordpasternack » Tue May 15, 2012 10:18 am

Clinton Huxley wrote:RDRFS may be a shambles, X may have had an affair with Y but as far as I know, no-one died. It all looks like a massive amount of effort invested in something largely pointless. In the grand scheme of things, who cares?

A futile quest.
Can't you see that I'm busy strutting and fretting my hour on the stage, you bastard? Are you really trying to tell me that this is a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing?
Then they for sudden joy did weep,
And I for sorrow sung,
That such a king should play bo-peep,
And go the fools among.
Prithee, nuncle, keep a schoolmaster that can teach
thy fool to lie: I would fain learn to lie.

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Re: RD.net to be re-revamped!

Post by Clinton Huxley » Tue May 15, 2012 10:20 am

lordpasternack wrote:
Clinton Huxley wrote:RDRFS may be a shambles, X may have had an affair with Y but as far as I know, no-one died. It all looks like a massive amount of effort invested in something largely pointless. In the grand scheme of things, who cares?

A futile quest.
Can't you see that I'm busy strutting and fretting my hour on the stage, you bastard? Are you really trying to tell me that this is a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing?
In summary, yes. You could probably spend your time more profitably.
"I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"

AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!

Imagehttp://25kv.co.uk/date_counter.php?date ... 20counting!!![/img-sig]

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