The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

[Audley Strange]

This is in the Atheist plus Forum rules...

"Use trigger warnings: Disturbing content can trigger flashbacks and panic attacks in some people. Use the HiddenText tag to hide such content".

Does anyone else see this as genuinely perverse ?

I don't mean the trigger warning itself, in fact given that they are looking to a safe place for people suffering from various of physical, behavioural, mental difficulties and a whole slew of traumas, it would possible be a sensible thing to proclaim loudly on the banner, or better make a rule saying do not post content that could potentially trigger one of our posters.

And tell me this, if you genuinely knew that was the case that members of your forum were so vulnerable to such, why, if you are such a compassionate caring liberal as you claim, would you knowing post such material again and again? Shit, at least the trolls motivations are perfectly clear. I question others motivations for such.

[Bella Fortuna]

Does anyone else see this as genuinely perverse ?

Yes.

I see where the genesis of it may have arisen from, but as with so many things, it gets taken sometimes to ridiculous extremes.

[Ayaan]

This is in the Atheist plus Forum rules...

"Use trigger warnings: Disturbing content can trigger flashbacks and panic attacks in some people. Use the HiddenText tag to hide such content".

Does anyone else see this as genuinely perverse ?

I don't mean the trigger warning itself, in fact given that they are looking to a safe place for people suffering from various of physical, behavioural, mental difficulties and a whole slew of traumas, it would possible be a sensible thing to proclaim loudly on the banner, or better make a rule saying do not post content that could potentially trigger one of our posters.

And tell me this, if you genuinely knew that was the case that members of your forum were so vulnerable to such, why, if you are such a compassionate caring liberal as you claim, would you knowing post such material again and again? Shit, at least the trolls motivations are perfectly clear. I question others motivations for such.

And how are YOU supposed to know what will "trigger" someone else? Raised voices (even in print) sometimes do that to me given my past, but I have learned to cope with it. Had I demanded that everyone atound me accomodate me, I never would have learned that. There is such a thing as being too safe - life has sharp edges and you have to be able to deal with getting cut occasionally.

[Ayaan]

Does anyone else see this as genuinely perverse ?

Yes.

I see where the genesis of it may have arisen from, but as with so many things, it gets taken sometimes to ridiculous extremes.

I hope I didn't sound too harsh in my last post. Of course there are times when it is necessary to wrap someone in cotton wool and treat them carefully, but they can't live like that forever, it's unhealthy - like keeping a broken arm in a cast for years.

[Bella Fortuna]

Does anyone else see this as genuinely perverse ?

Yes.

I see where the genesis of it may have arisen from, but as with so many things, it gets taken sometimes to ridiculous extremes.

I hope I didn't sound too harsh in my last post. Of course there are times when it is necessary to wrap someone in cotton wool and treat them carefully, but they can't live like that forever, it's unhealthy - like keeping a broken arm in a cast for years.

Not at all. I completely agree with you. Everyone has issues, traumas, unhappinesses... this is part of life. Sometimes we are more fragile than others. But when people define themselves by the negative as almost a badge of honour, or use woundedness as an excuse to fault and control others (who may be ignorant) or other similar things... I find that very off-putting.

[DaveD]

I don't understand why people use the phrase "trigger warning" without giving the reader a clue as to what the trigger is. Why not use a word that conveys that in the title of a thread, such as "rapist" in a thread about a rapist, or "bacon" to warn over-sensitive vegetarians that there's a discussion about the food of the gods. As Ayaan says, there are many triggers that may affect some people, but not others. How is somebody to know if it's something that will affect them, if all they are told is "trigger warning".

[Bella Fortuna]

Exactly. Similar has been pointed out at RatSkep. http://www.rationalskepticism.org/nonth ... l#p1458993

[Audley Strange]

And how are YOU supposed to know what will "trigger" someone else? Raised voices (even in print) sometimes do that to me given my past, but I have learned to cope with it. Had I demanded that everyone atound me accomodate me, I never would have learned that. There is such a thing as being too safe - life has sharp edges and you have to be able to deal with getting cut occasionally.

Well "you're" not and I completely agree with you you can't spell smothering without mothering. However they desire a disinfected mollycoddling atmosphere of mutual support, so it would seem reasonable that those in the habit of wanting to post things they even suspect might trigger people should be a no no.

You wouldn't go into child bereavement site and post an article about a school been blown up with a "trigger warning" unless there was something wrong with you. The intent might not be offence but... intent apparently does not matter. So I do question the motivations.

[Rum]

I question the whole forum. It is muddle headed and based on dodgy academia leading to even dodgier ideology. I have been trying to work out why it gets me so mad and I think I have worked it out.

It reminds me of the days when I was a heavy duty Marxist in my 20s. I was into all the in-fighting that went on in the local communist party and associated groups in Bristol where I was a social work student. The way it worked was that there was Marxist thinking a la Marx and Lenin and the source material (not to mention Trotsky and others) and there were interpretors of that thinking and writers who were in fashion at the time and those that were out of favour. The local groups would read stuff, debate it, argue ferociously agree a position (or not) and then argue with other groups who had a slightly different take on the issue. The in-fighting was really quite nasty at times and people fell out big time. It was utterly pointless and in the case of socialism, held it back from any possibility of gaining real political power. We were navel gazing, going round and round, inventing whole vocabularies, value systems and a sort of internal logic which left the real world behind and made little sense to outsiders. It also justified doing and believing things which left real humanity and compassion behind..

That is exactly, to my mind what social justice/feminist/privilege based thinking does.

[colubridae]

And how are YOU supposed to know what will "trigger" someone else? Raised voices (even in print) sometimes do that to me given my past, but I have learned to cope with it. Had I demanded that everyone atound me accomodate me, I never would have learned that. There is such a thing as being too safe - life has sharp edges and you have to be able to deal with getting cut occasionally.

Well "you're" not and I completely agree with you you can't spell smothering without mothering. However they desire a disinfected mollycoddling atmosphere of mutual support, so it would seem reasonable that those in the habit of wanting to post things they even suspect might trigger people should be a no no.

You wouldn't go into child bereavement site and post an article about a school been blown up with a "trigger warning" unless there was something wrong with you. The intent might not be offence but... intent apparently does not matter. So I do question the motivations.

I'm really keen on AHermit's explanation of this bizarre fucking...stuff. I sense it will be a lulu.

I try to match others eloquence as much as poss, but I really don’t have any words to properly describe the level of pure nuttiness they've reached. The closest I can come is the overworked cliche ‘headless chickens in the farmyard’.

Surely, at some point PZ is going to suddenly realise just how whacky their world-view has become.
I would give my eye teeth to see the slow dawning of reality. Honestly not for any schadenfreude, purely for fascination. I relish epiphanic moments.

[Bella Fortuna]

I question the whole forum. It is muddle headed and based on dodgy academia leading to even dodgier ideology. I have been trying to work out why it gets me so mad and I think I have worked it out.

It reminds me of the days when I was a heavy duty Marxist in my 20s. I was into all the in-fighting that went on in the local communist party and associated groups in Bristol where I was a social work student. The way it worked was that there was Marxist thinking a la Marx and Lenin and the source material (not to mention Trotsky and others) and there were interpretors of that thinking and writers who were in fashion at the time and those that were out of favour. The local groups would read stuff, debate it, argue ferociously agree a position (or not) and then argue with other groups who had a slightly different take on the issue. The in-fighting was really quite nasty at times and people fell out big time. It was utterly pointless and in the case of socialism, held it back from any possibility of gaining real political power. We were navel gazing, going round and round, inventing whole vocabularies, value systems and a sort of internal logic which left the real world behind and made little sense to outsiders. It also justified doing and believing things which left real humanity and compassion behind..

That is exactly, to my mind what social justice/feminist/privilege based thinking does.

I can see that. I think that's where some of my distaste comes from. And some of it is from the sniping, plain old rude and intolerant lockstep attitudes I see there on the whole. It just seems like an very unpleasant mindset.

[That Alien Guy.]

The common mammalian Alpha heirarchies lead to a situation where the alphas are lazy crude and prone to outbursts of cathartic violence when someone threatens their position, but they tend not to take much interest in the social conflicts that their underlings compete in to pretend they are in charge. Practically all social movements are considered beneath their notice and those that they take notice of are easily crushed.

Dance amongst yourselves but do not rile your superiors, they will set up industries to destroy you.

[Clinton Huxley]

Atheism plus? Rick from the Young Ones gets a forum.

[Bella Fortuna]

Atheism plus? Rick from the Young Ones gets a forum.

[Audley Strange]

I used to love the Young Ones, it's been decades since I watched it but wasn't there an episode with Rik reciting his bad protest poetry from a crucifix?