The Civil War Within Skepticism

[Pappa]

Some great comments below that article too.

[Gerald McGrew]

What worries me about the Slate article is that it's very much looking like an attention grab by an attention-desperate person. For the most part, the "feminism in skepticism" controversy had died down, and likewise the attention given to people who seem to thrive on it. So to stoke the dying embers, an article is published in Slate and the drama begins again.

And I was stupid enough to fall for it.

[Coito ergo sum]

Since Hitchens died, Slate descended quickly into a pile of drek. It's not surprising that they're bringing in contributors like Skepchicks.

[Gerald McGrew]

Some great comments below that article too.

I looked through some and it always comes back to the same thing...

"You've been groped at conferences, asked out in elevators, and anonymously threatened with rape on the internet. Ok. What exactly do you want?"

All I see in response is some call to "speak out against it". Um....sure.

To all who attend atheist conferences: Don't grope or grab women. Don't ask Rebecca Watson out in an elevator (some other women have said it would be ok).

To everyone on the internet: Don't make rape threats.



We're done here, right?

[Coito ergo sum]

I don't believe she was ever groped and grabbed at atheist conferences.

I am willing to believe that she engaged in "horseplay" as we have seen in many images that have circulated around about her bar activities. I'm sure there were time when she grabbed a guy's ass and that sort of thing. And, people sometimes touch each other when flirting -- like a hand on the forearm or other person's hand -- maybe a touch to the shoulder, etc. But, "groping and grabbing?"

The picture she paints is of some guy that just out of the blue reaches out and squeezes her naughty bits. Where the fuck did that happen? The bar? The hallway? A conference room?

What would be a reasonable person's reaction to that --- guy walks up to Watson in the vicinity of the conference room areas, and grabs her tit or her ass. Grown woman. What does she do? Not say anything? Did she confront the man who did it? yell at him? Did she run? Did she slap him? Who was it that committed the assault? Did she tell anyone at the time? Friends? Conference organizers? Hotels staff? Law enforcement? Anyone?

It has never been acceptable to just randomly grope a woman. The excuse that Watson has essentially used before as to why we never heard of this stuff at the time is that she just wasn't really aware that it was wrong. She was in her young party-girl phase, and wasn't aware of the misogyny of the patriarchy and thought it was normal to be grabbed and groped and harassed.

My bet -- she's just making it up. it sounds good and is unverifiable.

[Gerald McGrew]

What would be a reasonable person's reaction to that --- guy walks up to Watson in the vicinity of the conference room areas, and grabs her tit or her ass. Grown woman. What does she do? Not say anything? Did she confront the man who did it? yell at him? Did she run? Did she slap him? Who was it that committed the assault? Did she tell anyone at the time? Friends? Conference organizers? Hotels staff? Law enforcement? Anyone?

That's kinda been my gripe all along. If you get groped like that at a conference, go fucking tell someone. Don't wait until months later and make blanket accusations against the entire atheist/skeptic community.

It's like someone getting mugged, never telling the police even when they have a good description of the mugger, and later complaining "this city has a serious crime problem". How the hell is anyone supposed to catch the perpetrators if no one reports them?

[Coito ergo sum]

What would be a reasonable person's reaction to that --- guy walks up to Watson in the vicinity of the conference room areas, and grabs her tit or her ass. Grown woman. What does she do? Not say anything? Did she confront the man who did it? yell at him? Did she run? Did she slap him? Who was it that committed the assault? Did she tell anyone at the time? Friends? Conference organizers? Hotels staff? Law enforcement? Anyone?

That's kinda been my gripe all along. If you get groped like that at a conference, go fucking tell someone. Don't wait until months later and make blanket accusations against the entire atheist/skeptic community.

It's like someone getting mugged, never telling the police even when they have a good description of the mugger, and later complaining "this city has a serious crime problem". How the hell is anyone supposed to catch the perpetrators if no one reports them?

On far milder "incidents" we saw Skepchicks have no problem saying stuff about it. Take the "elevator" incident. There we have a guy who asked her for coffee. This was what triggered her to make a public statement about how improper that was. Yet, all the times she was groped and grabbed, she never thought to make a video saying "guys, don't do that. It's not o.k. to just grab women's asses." Really? Asking for coffee in an elevator -- that needs a video. But, getting groped and grabbed, that doesn't merit any sort of public statement?

It makes no sense, which is why if I were a betting man, i would say she's lying.

[Coito ergo sum]

I either missed, or forgot about, the Skepchick War Against Penn Jillette: http://phawrongula.wikia.com/wiki/Attac ... n_Jillette

These people are sad, sad cunts.

[laklak]

I don't imagine Penn is losing any sleep over it.

[Cormac]

unwittingly

Reads quite deliberate (written with his usual deliberation), to me.

Oh it's deliberate yes, however I meant more that by him addressing the situation reasonably he still has hope he can appeal to Myers reason. I'm saddened to say I think it will fall on deaf ears and perhaps provoke another over-reaction from Myers and his courtiers that he wasn't foreseeing. He seems genuinely to think the best of people.

Perhaps this is an example of giving enough rope...

If he responds badly, he'll have hammered another nail into the coffin of his own reputation.

[Cormac]

Many of the members of here and RatSkep were the wrong kind apparently.

Don't forget there was a veritable Grima Wormtongue whispering poison into his ear the whole time...

[Audley Strange]

"You've been groped at conferences, asked out in elevators, and anonymously threatened with rape on the internet. Ok. What exactly do you want?"

Oh nothing much, just fame, money and revenge. I'll show that bastard, think he can leave me, ME?!?!?! I'll show him, men, they're all the fucking same, PIGS! We should just you know, like kill most of them off and keep the cute rich ones to milk their sperm so we can all have babies... squeeeee. And he hated my cats.

[Jason]

"You've been groped at conferences, asked out in elevators, and anonymously threatened with rape on the internet. Ok. What exactly do you want?"

I want to be groped at conferences! I want to be asked out in elevators! I want to be anonymously threatened with rape on the internet! I mean rape over the internet? That's gotta be one hell of a mindfuck!

She only gets it because she dresses like a slut!

[JimC]

I taught my advanced science lads about genetic diseases caused by sex-lined recessive alleles today, that are vastly more common in males than females...

I told them to remember this lesson, if they ever got into an argument with an extreme feminist about "male privilege"