"What started as a legitimate effort by the townspeople of Salem to identify, capture and kill those who did Satan's bidding quickly deteriorated into a witch hunt" Army Man
Audley Strange wrote:
It is not ironic since I am entirely aware I am villifying their position. However I can provide evidence that Radical Feminism is born from misandry, a paranoid conspiracy theory which has devalued the women's movement by being a batshit insane attack group that uses the victim card to stifle debate to the extent that a lot the intellectual weight behind feminism stopped identifying as Feminists when they became the first wave of "gender traitors".
Radical Feminism deserves to be villified in my opinion because it is reactionary and revisionist and is not looking for reasoned debate. You either accept their ideology or you are the enemy. Since this has specifically been overtly male negative (and insidiously female negative) the reaction is not framed by them as "hmmm do they have a point?". Instead that reaction has become as I said a self fulfilling prophecy in which they have become further isolated and entrenched by that belief system.
They are NOT skeptical. They are not open to discussion. In fact I would suggest that more reasonable discussions about them have taken place when they are not involved. However then they complain they are being excluded from that conversation. However they are not interested in conversation, they are only interested in acquiescence to their position.That is totalitarianism.
Now since you are reasonably discussing this on their behalf (noble of you) explain to me exactly why you think we should keep the lines of communication open to Totalitarian ideologues within the Skeptic movement, or why you think they are not Totalitarian ideologues.
Radical feminism has a lot of anti-male history. I agree wholeheartedly. Look no further than http://www.womynkind.org/scum.htm for that. I know there were a few man-hating women in feminism back in the late '80s and early '90s from personal experience. There were also a lot of really accepting and very cool women in there too. I haven't really kept up that closely lately to be honest.
However; having a skim over the front page of the Skepchick blog reveals nothing at all like the misandry wing of radfem to me. I'd like to see examples that show the attitudes and methods you identify in Radical Feminism as being widely held by the regular staff at Skepchick.
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
-Mr P
The Net is best considered analogous to communication with disincarnate intelligences. As any neophyte would tell you. Do not invoke that which you have no facility to banish.
Audley Strange
Bella Fortuna wrote:Wow, Audley, you have said everything that I have nebulously felt but could not quite put into words. Thank you; I have immense respect for you.
+1
I think that language has a lot to do with interfering in our relationship to direct experience. A simple thing like metaphor will allows you to go to a place and say 'this is like that'. Well, this isn't like that. This is like this.
Audley Strange wrote:
It is not ironic since I am entirely aware I am villifying their position. However I can provide evidence that Radical Feminism is born from misandry, a paranoid conspiracy theory which has devalued the women's movement by being a batshit insane attack group that uses the victim card to stifle debate to the extent that a lot the intellectual weight behind feminism stopped identifying as Feminists when they became the first wave of "gender traitors".
Radical Feminism deserves to be villified in my opinion because it is reactionary and revisionist and is not looking for reasoned debate. You either accept their ideology or you are the enemy. Since this has specifically been overtly male negative (and insidiously female negative) the reaction is not framed by them as "hmmm do they have a point?". Instead that reaction has become as I said a self fulfilling prophecy in which they have become further isolated and entrenched by that belief system.
They are NOT skeptical. They are not open to discussion. In fact I would suggest that more reasonable discussions about them have taken place when they are not involved. However then they complain they are being excluded from that conversation. However they are not interested in conversation, they are only interested in acquiescence to their position.That is totalitarianism.
Now since you are reasonably discussing this on their behalf (noble of you) explain to me exactly why you think we should keep the lines of communication open to Totalitarian ideologues within the Skeptic movement, or why you think they are not Totalitarian ideologues.
Radical feminism has a lot of anti-male history. I agree wholeheartedly. Look no further than http://www.womynkind.org/scum.htm for that. I know there were a few man-hating women in feminism back in the late '80s and early '90s from personal experience. There were also a lot of really accepting and very cool women in there too. I haven't really kept up that closely lately to be honest.
However; having a skim over the front page of the Skepchick blog reveals nothing at all like the misandry wing of radfem to me. I'd like to see examples that show the attitudes and methods you identify in Radical Feminism as being widely held by the regular staff at Skepchick.
Rightly so Robert, good on you. I will endeavour to do just that, because I intend to write something about the entire issue. I will also say, right here right now, if I am wrong not only will I admit it, I will write a public apology.
[edited to add. Just give me a bit of time on this if you wouldn't mind.]
Last edited by Audley Strange on Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"What started as a legitimate effort by the townspeople of Salem to identify, capture and kill those who did Satan's bidding quickly deteriorated into a witch hunt" Army Man
Pretty pathetic civil war as far as civil wars go.
Problem: sexism or some shit, provide evidence of widespread sexism later...
Weapon: blags!
Leaders: Lord Peezus and his ego-driven Queen Bee
Goal: fuck if I know and I'm pretty sure they don't either
Have creationists become so boring to argue with that we've decided on more interesting targets? 6000 year old earth...no..radiometric dating...*snore*...the flud...Noah's Ark...that's fucking retarded.
Ya know, long before Rush Limbo made it a household word, PC was used self-mockingly by liberals and counterculture types.
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
-Mr P
The Net is best considered analogous to communication with disincarnate intelligences. As any neophyte would tell you. Do not invoke that which you have no facility to banish.
Audley Strange
Pord - of fucking course I'd hit it. Couple of tequila shooters and I'd hit a fucking gorilla.
Nibbler - I agree, it's a pretty sad-ass excuse for a civil war. At Sharpsburg (Antietam to you Yankee bastards) there were 23,000 casualties in a single day. Only casualties I see here are some butt-hurt feelings.
Robert_S wrote:Ya know, long before Rush Limbo made it a household word, PC was used self-mockingly by liberals and counterculture types.
Yes. It's an old term but I believe the term was widely used by the Politburo in the 60's when Pravda journalists that they had the freedom to print anything as long as it was politically correct, this was picked up by Marxists and Communist sympathisers of the Militant left in early 70's, which your described groups often mocked as being radical and extreme and language stifling while having some sympathy with their ideology.
"What started as a legitimate effort by the townspeople of Salem to identify, capture and kill those who did Satan's bidding quickly deteriorated into a witch hunt" Army Man
Robert_S wrote:Ya know, long before Rush Limbo made it a household word, PC was used self-mockingly by liberals and counterculture types.
Yes. It's an old term but I believe the term was widely used by the Politburo in the 60's when Pravda journalists that they had the freedom to print anything as long as it was politically correct, this was picked up by Marxists and Communist sympathisers of the Militant left in early 70's, which your described groups often mocked as being radical and extreme and language stifling while having some sympathy with their ideology.
Parts of the ideology at least. A lot of folks do a lot of revolutionary/utopian dreaming while also doing things to make real lives better in the here and now.
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
-Mr P
The Net is best considered analogous to communication with disincarnate intelligences. As any neophyte would tell you. Do not invoke that which you have no facility to banish.
Audley Strange
Yeah and there's a lot of people who make lives better on a day to day basis that are practically apolitical. This is what gets me about political ideologies. They are dreams, just the same as religions and just like religions, they can be others nightmares when they are made manifest because those who espouse them expect everyone to be tailored to suit the cloth rather than the other way around. They make good people do bad things.
"What started as a legitimate effort by the townspeople of Salem to identify, capture and kill those who did Satan's bidding quickly deteriorated into a witch hunt" Army Man
About me: Being your slave, what should I do but tend Upon the hours and times of your desire? I have no precious time at all to spend, Nor services to do, till you require.
Audley Strange wrote:Yeah and there's a lot of people who make lives better on a day to day basis that are practically apolitical. This is what gets me about political ideologies. They are dreams, just the same as religions and just like religions, they can be others nightmares when they are made manifest because those who espouse them expect everyone to be tailored to suit the cloth rather than the other way around. They make good people do bad things.
Audley Strange wrote:Yeah and there's a lot of people who make lives better on a day to day basis that are practically apolitical. This is what gets me about political ideologies. They are dreams, just the same as religions and just like religions, they can be others nightmares when they are made manifest because those who espouse them expect everyone to be tailored to suit the cloth rather than the other way around. They make good people do bad things.
True. But the point I was making was that a lot of people who identified as leftists and feminists used the term as a sort of call to common sense before I ever saw it used by media personalities on either side of the political spectrum.
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
-Mr P
The Net is best considered analogous to communication with disincarnate intelligences. As any neophyte would tell you. Do not invoke that which you have no facility to banish.
Audley Strange
Audley Strange wrote:Yeah and there's a lot of people who make lives better on a day to day basis that are practically apolitical. This is what gets me about political ideologies. They are dreams, just the same as religions and just like religions, they can be others nightmares when they are made manifest because those who espouse them expect everyone to be tailored to suit the cloth rather than the other way around. They make good people do bad things.
True. But the point I was making was that a lot of people who identified as leftists and feminists used the term as a sort of call to common sense before I ever saw it used by media personalities on either side of the political spectrum.
Yeah, as I said in my earlier post, we used to just call it civility.
"What started as a legitimate effort by the townspeople of Salem to identify, capture and kill those who did Satan's bidding quickly deteriorated into a witch hunt" Army Man
About me: Being your slave, what should I do but tend Upon the hours and times of your desire? I have no precious time at all to spend, Nor services to do, till you require.
