In Praise of Josh Timonen

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lordpasternack
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Re: In Praise of Josh Timonen

Post by lordpasternack » Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:04 pm

klr wrote:...I suspect that it was indeed never really an option for Josh et al, and that the forum staff and users were led down the garden path.

I suspect that there might be a significant element of truth in both accounts. Incidentally, the forum admin account wasn't used for several months after the hacking incident, which meant that Josh would have very likely lost touch with the forum altogether.
One thing that has become demonstrably clear now is that Josh was always ambivalent and apathetic - contemptuous even, about the forum. And that ambivalence, apathy and contempt is match one-for-one with his gaping, blantantly bottomless ignorance of how important and grand the forum was. :coffee:

ETA:
Someone posted this. Taken from Josh's Twitter account.

"Using a forum as a substitute for a real website is sloppy and lazy. Are you listening Red.com?! Or should I send you a PM with emoticons? 5:54 AM Feb 6th from web"
Then they for sudden joy did weep,
And I for sorrow sung,
That such a king should play bo-peep,
And go the fools among.
Prithee, nuncle, keep a schoolmaster that can teach
thy fool to lie: I would fain learn to lie.

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Re: In Praise of Josh Timonen

Post by colubridae » Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:09 pm

Bugger!

all this went on whilst I was banned from RDF.

I had no idea. What a jolly lark!
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Re: In Praise of Josh Timonen

Post by klr » Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:13 pm

lordpasternack wrote:
klr wrote:...I suspect that it was indeed never really an option for Josh et al, and that the forum staff and users were led down the garden path.

I suspect that there might be a significant element of truth in both accounts. Incidentally, the forum admin account wasn't used for several months after the hacking incident, which meant that Josh would have very likely lost touch with the forum altogether.
One thing that has become demonstrably clear now is that Josh was always ambivalent and apathetic - contemptuous even, about the forum. And that ambivalence, apathy and contempt is match one-for-one with his gaping, blantantly bottomless ignorance of how important and grand the forum was. :coffee:

ETA:
Someone posted this. Taken from Josh's Twitter account.

"Using a forum as a substitute for a real website is sloppy and lazy. Are you listening Red.com?! Or should I send you a PM with emoticons? 5:54 AM Feb 6th from web"
Oh yes ... that little gem. He may regret ever posting that bon mot, and others. It's going to follow him around I fear.

Despite a considerable amount of email correspondence at times with Josh, I found him hard to fathom (very laconic altogether in his expenditure of words), which is why I tend to be more reticent myself when it comes to character and motivation judgements. But it doesn't look too good at all ...
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Re: In Praise of Josh Timonen

Post by lordpasternack » Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:40 am

Just thought I'd post this cracker from Richard from back in October 2008:
It is a community, and that is a valuable part of it. Many of our forum threads have an atmosphere of friends going out for a drink and chatting. I think that is valuable, and I don’t think we should insist on sticking to serious topics. That would be a good way to stifle the sense of community, and that would be a real shame.
Can someone explain the changing of mind? :ask:
Then they for sudden joy did weep,
And I for sorrow sung,
That such a king should play bo-peep,
And go the fools among.
Prithee, nuncle, keep a schoolmaster that can teach
thy fool to lie: I would fain learn to lie.

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Re: In Praise of Josh Timonen

Post by lordpasternack » Fri Feb 26, 2010 1:02 am

Must add-in this piece from Cali in the Times comments:
As one of the former moderators of the forums, whose 2½ years of unpaid volunteer activity was declared surplus to requirements, allow me to present a few facts here, inconvenient though they may be for a juicy tabloid-style presentation painting the forum membership unjustly as an unwashed rabble of Neanderthals.

[1] The mod team was informed, months ago, that changes were to be made to the forum. However, details were not forthcoming. The mod team were not even shown basic screenshots of the protoptype new software in action, and all requests to provide the information we needed in order to implement the changes being decided upon in as seamless a manner as possible were simply ignored. I suspect a lot of foot soldiers in the IT world will be familiar with this scenario.

[2] When the public announcement was made to the forum membership, it was presented in such a manner as to suggest that the mod team assented in full to the changes that were being made, which was a blatant falsehood.

[3] When one of the moderators posted a message providing evidence to the membership that this was a blatant falsehood, said moderator was axed from the site. Not merely banned, but his entire user account destroyed, along with thousands of posts containing the very expositions of hard science that RD claims to be in favour of seeing more of.

[4] When forum members launched a thread critical of this move, the thread was summarily deleted, and several other users were expunged from the site, along with over 30,000 posts. Again, this included valuable material covering scientific topics, made accessible to the layman, of the very sort RD claims to be in favour of seeing posted. Which means that Josh Timonen, in deleting this material, was acting in direct contravention of the stated mission of his boss by destroying that material.

[5] Josh then placed the entire forum in read-only mode, wilfully destroyed information allowing members to maintain contact via other means, and in a move of truly juvenile petulance, redirected links intended to point to software backup portals to a Rick Astley video on YouTube (yes, he thought that rickrolling those wishing to back up their material constituted proper professional conduct).

[6] Members decanted in numbers to another forum, and vented their anger on that other forum..

[7] Josh lifted quote mined snippets from that forum, presented these to RD as if they constituted the substantive views of the exiled membership, whilst taking steps to ensure that his master never saw the substantive allegations against him with respect to the above-cited mendacious conduct, and took steps to hide his duplicity further by destroying moderator log entries that would have revealed his wilful vandalism of the forum and its contents.

[8] RD, placing a faintly ridiculous amount of trust in this individual, accepted these quote mines as fact, without checking his sources independently, and posted the tirade that has since become newsworthy.

In short, RD bestowed plenary powers upon Josh Timonen, who wilfully and maliciously abused them to entrench his own position of power. By doing so, Timonen has inflicted enormous damage upon his master's reputation, and indeed upon his master's stated mission, as cited above. Indeed, Dawkins' enemies amongst the professional liars for creationism could not have wished for a better result, had Timonen been planted within RD's organisation by them as a mole. Twenty years' hard work by Dawkins, alerting people to the dangers of doctrine centred world views, and attempting to educate people about valid science in the face of duplicitous ideological attack, has in effect been flushed down the toilet by his protegé.
:pop:
Then they for sudden joy did weep,
And I for sorrow sung,
That such a king should play bo-peep,
And go the fools among.
Prithee, nuncle, keep a schoolmaster that can teach
thy fool to lie: I would fain learn to lie.

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Re: In Praise of Josh Timonen

Post by klr » Fri Feb 26, 2010 1:04 am

lordpasternack wrote:Just thought I'd post this cracker from Richard from back in October 2008:
It is a community, and that is a valuable part of it. Many of our forum threads have an atmosphere of friends going out for a drink and chatting. I think that is valuable, and I don’t think we should insist on sticking to serious topics. That would be a good way to stifle the sense of community, and that would be a real shame.
Can someone explain the changing of mind? :ask:
Maybe a case of: "My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right"?
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Re: In Praise of Josh Timonen

Post by laklak » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:22 am

lordpasternack wrote:Just thought I'd post this cracker from Richard from back in October 2008:
It is a community, and that is a valuable part of it. Many of our forum threads have an atmosphere of friends going out for a drink and chatting. I think that is valuable, and I don’t think we should insist on sticking to serious topics. That would be a good way to stifle the sense of community, and that would be a real shame.
Can someone explain the changing of mind? :ask:
Oceania is at war with Eurasia. Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia. What requires explanation?

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Re: In Praise of Josh Timonen

Post by kiki5711 » Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:52 am

lordpasternack wrote:Just thought I'd post this cracker from Richard from back in October 2008:
It is a community, and that is a valuable part of it. Many of our forum threads have an atmosphere of friends going out for a drink and chatting. I think that is valuable, and I don’t think we should insist on sticking to serious topics. That would be a good way to stifle the sense of community, and that would be a real shame.
Can someone explain the changing of mind? :ask:
Good point! :shock:

And now it will be only serious topics. Wonder what kind of community that will be? :eddy: :eddy: :snooze:

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Re: In Praise of Josh Timonen

Post by twistor59 » Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:07 pm

kiki5711 wrote: And now it will be only serious topics. Wonder what kind of community that will be? :eddy: :eddy: :snooze:

A serious one ! :hehe:

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Re: In Praise of Josh Timonen

Post by kiki5711 » Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:03 pm

twistor59 wrote:
kiki5711 wrote: And now it will be only serious topics. Wonder what kind of community that will be? :eddy: :eddy: :snooze:

A serious one ! :hehe:
Yea, and when I can't fall asleep, I'll start reading their posts which will pass me out in a minute :snooze: :snooze:

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Re: In Praise of Josh Timonen

Post by cursuswalker » Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:26 pm

I note with interest that it is still possible to change your avatar, sig and profile. Just saying like.

In the meantime we welcome all forms of irreverand bollocks at caerabred.com, where paganism meets skepticism.
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Re: In Praise of Josh Timonen

Post by klr » Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:29 pm

cursuswalker wrote:I note with interest that it is still possible to change your avatar, sig and profile. Just saying like.

In the meantime we welcome all forms of irreverand bollocks at caerabred.com, where paganism meets skepticism.
Being able to change the sig is of no consequence, since the display of sigs on the forum has been suppressed. :pissed:

How can you be a pagan and a skeptic? :shifty:

:pardon:
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It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner

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Re: In Praise of Josh Timonen

Post by Bella Fortuna » Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:30 pm

twistor59 wrote:
kiki5711 wrote: And now it will be only serious topics. Wonder what kind of community that will be? :eddy: :eddy: :snooze:

A serious one ! :hehe:
And a dry dull husk devoid of real enthusiasm that will be a tortured attempt to remove the full range of normal human social interaction.

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Re: In Praise of Josh Timonen

Post by Virus » Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:51 pm

It sounds like they want something more like the peer-review system. Except there's only one reviewer and he's an IT and A/V guy. He said anyone is free to post articles subject to editorial veto yet told the the mods that the new site will not require their services and all were shafted. So what if, god forbid, it gets 200 posts a day? Is he going to sit there with a delete key going "no, no, yes, no, yes..."
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Re: In Praise of Josh Timonen

Post by Tortured_Genius » Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:14 pm

In all this am I seeing the role of Metatron being filled by Josh in his own and RD's eyes.

Ironically, it's all a bit biblical really. :whistle:

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