Rationalskepticism,lol part III.

[Strontium Dog]

Marxism is like someone going into the hospital with a broken leg, being correctly diagnosed with a broken leg, and the doctor treats it by hobbling everyone else in the hospital too.

[Seth]

Marxism is like someone going into the hospital with a broken leg, being correctly diagnosed with a broken leg, and the doctor treats it by hobbling everyone else in the hospital too.

Apt comparison, apt indeed.

[Brian Peacock]

You guys are funny.

[Seth]

You guys are funny.

But not wrong.

[Brian Peacock]

http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... 4#p1576194

[JimC]

Utterly alone in the world? Join the club! :-)

We are born naked and alone, and we die naked and alone.

But, if we're lucky, we get 75 or so years on the planet to feel pleasure, pain, joy, happiness, sadness, jealousy, envy, compassion, kindness and all the rest. We are the lucky few who even got to be alive in the first place.

“We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here.We privileged few, who won the lottery of birth against all odds, how dare we whine at our inevitable return to that prior state from which the vast majority have never stirred?” - Richard Dawkins.

I actually really hate that quote as it's overtly dualist. I can't believe he ever thought that was a good argument to prosecute.

How can "existence vs. nonexistence" be anything but dualist? Or, is your complaint that there are some DNA iterations other than the one an individual has that would still be that individual?

If I understand you correctly, you don't like the duality of you are here as DNA combination A, and that any other DNA combination is another person who by happenstance did not come to exist. I think that's a fair question, although, it certainly would be a foundational question -- would a person born with ALMOST my DNA combination still be me? Would my "consciousness" be the same or similar enough to still be perceived by me as me? Is that where your objection lies?

I'm not impressed by the quote either, though not for philosophical grounds about dualism or anything else.

It's simply that it is twee and facile, and does not say anything important about the raw reality of life and death.

[pErvinalia]

Utterly alone in the world? Join the club! :-)

We are born naked and alone, and we die naked and alone.

But, if we're lucky, we get 75 or so years on the planet to feel pleasure, pain, joy, happiness, sadness, jealousy, envy, compassion, kindness and all the rest. We are the lucky few who even got to be alive in the first place.

“We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here.We privileged few, who won the lottery of birth against all odds, how dare we whine at our inevitable return to that prior state from which the vast majority have never stirred?” - Richard Dawkins.

I actually really hate that quote as it's overtly dualist. I can't believe he ever thought that was a good argument to prosecute.

How can "existence vs. nonexistence" be anything but dualist? Or, is your complaint that there are some DNA iterations other than the one an individual has that would still be that individual?

If I understand you correctly, you don't like the duality of you are here as DNA combination A, and that any other DNA combination is another person who by happenstance did not come to exist. I think that's a fair question, although, it certainly would be a foundational question -- would a person born with ALMOST my DNA combination still be me? Would my "consciousness" be the same or similar enough to still be perceived by me as me? Is that where your objection lies?

That I'm supposed to have some feelings about "potential people". I can't have feelings for something that doesn't exist or even make sense. The only way it can make sense is if we adopt dualism. That is there's a bunch of souls floating around out there just waiting to be born and I was picked and other souls weren't. It's nonsense. Even more so from a monist atheist like Dawkins.

[DaveDodo007]

Utterly alone in the world? Join the club! :-)

We are born naked and alone, and we die naked and alone.

But, if we're lucky, we get 75 or so years on the planet to feel pleasure, pain, joy, happiness, sadness, jealousy, envy, compassion, kindness and all the rest. We are the lucky few who even got to be alive in the first place.

“We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here.We privileged few, who won the lottery of birth against all odds, how dare we whine at our inevitable return to that prior state from which the vast majority have never stirred?” - Richard Dawkins.

I actually really hate that quote as it's overtly dualist. I can't believe he ever thought that was a good argument to prosecute.

How can "existence vs. nonexistence" be anything but dualist? Or, is your complaint that there are some DNA iterations other than the one an individual has that would still be that individual?

If I understand you correctly, you don't like the duality of you are here as DNA combination A, and that any other DNA combination is another person who by happenstance did not come to exist. I think that's a fair question, although, it certainly would be a foundational question -- would a person born with ALMOST my DNA combination still be me? Would my "consciousness" be the same or similar enough to still be perceived by me as me? Is that where your objection lies?

I'm not impressed by the quote either, though not for philosophical grounds about dualism or anything else.

It's simply that it is twee and facile, and does not say anything important about the raw reality of life and death.

To be fair the quote was aimed at the religious who think this life is just a stepping stone towards heaven so of course it wont make any sense to an atheist.

[DaveDodo007]

Marxism is like someone going into the hospital with a broken leg, being correctly diagnosed with a broken leg, and the doctor treats it by hobbling everyone else in the hospital too.

You have just summed up feminism and SJWism too.

[pErvinalia]

Jeez, I pick my time to pop back in catch up with what's been happening the last few months.

Hi there, rEv. While I agree with just about all of your views I must admit that I have not your rage aspects and ad hominems at all. How's life in the Kingscliff trailer park in general and the relationship with your neighbour in particular?

Syd keeps getting carted off in an ambulance. I figure it will be for good one day. The last time it happened coincided with my ex-wife visiting briefly and parking her car out the front of my place which makes it difficult for him to get his car out. He gets particularly worked up about things being out of place or not right (by his reckoning). As he's being loaded into the ambo later that night, I'm out there checking he's alright, and the last thing he says before they close the doors is to ask about whose car that was. Lol. Poor old coot.

The neighbour behind me coughs badly all night. I reckon he's on his last legs too. That's why I stay inside (or inside my car) and don't mingle. Too many imminent deaths around here...

Just found out today that one of my neighbours did die last week. Bit sad. I didn't really know him, but we waved and said high every time I went past his place. He's left a widow behind.

[Mr.Samsa]

Thanks, Sean. I wasn't really tempted to. Just really wanted to ask Samsa a psychology question. But I've got nothing much better to do, so until he shows up (if he shows up) I'll probably keep having the same brain numbing interactions with the likes of MisterMack, DaveDodo, Scot Ductchy and Strontium Dog as I did before. What's that an indication of? Insanity? Yeah,, sounds about right for me...

Hey bud, what can I help you with?

[pErvinalia]

Jeez you appear like magic sometimes! Got the kids at the moment. Sometime later...

[Mr.Samsa]

Jeez you appear like magic sometimes!

That's what all the ladies tell me. Or something.

Got the kids at the moment. Sometime later...

No problem, PM me if you need or if I take too long to reply.

[DaveDodo007]

Got the kids at the moment. Sometime later...

No problem, PM me if you need or if I take too long to reply.

Mentions you by name but is too busy to reply, I don't need to tell you that rEv is full of shit as the next ideologue. Prepare to be attacked personally and have to deal with logical fallacies, equivocation and ad hominems (creationist come in all forms as it is not just the religious as that is all he has got.) Not that anything you say is any better but at least I don't have to get down in the mud and wrestle with pigs when I disagree with you.

[Mr.Samsa]

Mentions you by name but is too busy to reply,

Eh, he mentioned me like a week ago, I'm not expecting him to put his life on hold just in case I call him back.

I don't need to tell you that rEv is full of shit as the next ideologue. Prepare to be attacked personally and have to deal with logical fallacies, equivocation and ad hominems (creationist come in all forms as it is not just the religious as that is all he has got.)

That sounds terrible! Normally that's the kind of behavior I see in MRAs but if that's what Rev's going to do, I'll keep my guard up. You hear that, Rev, I'm ready for ya!!

Not that anything you say is any better but at least I don't have to get down in the mud and wrestle with pigs when I disagree with you.

Thank you?