Non sexual intimacy.

[Thinking Aloud]

Floppit, you lost me from thread title.

I do admit that I'm likely seriously neurotic, but what are you going on about? Non sexual intimacy? I just hate being touched at all unless the lady and I are in bed, or going to be very soon, and touchy feely guys give me a certain urge to puke when I happen to be the object of their attention.... that or my adrenalin starts flowing and the fight or flight response kicks in.

What I don't get is why you seem to regard that as quite bad.

For many years I had a phobia about being touched. By anyone. In any way.

[maiforpeace]

Now, in my social group there is little if any religion left but the reservations it left are still going strong. I could count on one hand the times I have hugged my best friend of 28yrs.

I kind of understand what you are referring to when it comes to society in general, but I found this a little odd. Maybe it's a British thing?

I can't think of a time when I don't hug and kiss my friends (a big, bear hug, and a kiss on the lips) at least once when I first see them, usually two or three times during the course of meeting up, because there's always something we discuss or share that brings us close together. I even do this with people who are just warm acquaintances, like members of my toastmasters group.

I think human contact in non-sexualized ways is absolutely essential for our well being, and like you I think we don't do it enough. I spend time at a nursing home with residents and one of their favorite activities is a hand massage. When I first introduced this activity they were very reluctant and uncomfortable with the idea, now they get in line for them.

I never hug or kiss someone I am getting to know, or for the first time, without asking first, but I always ask. Most of the time people respond, and for those who don't, we still shake hands or put an arm around each other to show some intimacy.

[floppit]

Nah - I'm not one for unexpectedly hugging someone, and the cheek kiss confuses me but I grew up in a culture where it doesn't happen and there's no way I can view or know who I would have been had I lived where it is routine.

What I'm saying is that I'd find it bloody odd that as group animals we are meant to naturally find touch outside of sex scary or repulsive. Evidently (and naturally) they'd always be degrees with those who are 'touchy feely' and those who aren't so much so but it doesn't have to be an embrace! To tap someone on the shoulder rather than shout in a noisy place isn't an invasion unless they are extremely highly strung - yet me, personally, I had to actually teach myself to do it. I shared an office with someone deaf and it took me ages to get over having to tap before speaking (that was 10 years ago!). My FIL is very deaf and I still don't find it a whole heap easier.

I'd never hold an elderly person's hand unless they offered it to me but it does make a fundamental difference to then hold it warmly and without plotting an early escape.

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about camp behaviour done for effect, I'm talking about genuine contact in caring situations. I still think the west has it wrong, not that all should hug everyone everyday, people should be different, just that it's form of communication being left to rot and I think it's an important one.

[Rum]

This is all a bit of a puzzle. If you go to the Middle East or Asia (as examples) you see men holding hands and arms over each other shoulders all the time. You see that in the UK too - when the pubs are open on a Friday and Saturday night and the inhibitions are down! Something odd going on.

[Berthold]

In the Slav nations, kissing is the common form of greeting, comparable to a handshake in central Europe (I know the Brits even rarely shake hands ).

[Hermit]

Excellent topic, Floppit.

I think the issue is that all contact of the kind you are describing has been sexualized. I have been thinking since reading your post about why that might be. You can't cuddle a kid any more without someone looking at you suspiciously. You can't swim naked any more as people used to do commonly. You can't share a bath with your kids without wondering if it might be viewed as a 'bad thing'.

I think the removal of public intimacy happened at the same time as the clampdown on sexuality - ie. the early Victorian era. It was part and parcel of the same mindset. Somehow, we have dropped the sexual inhibitions but kept the ones pertaining to public displays of affection - bizarre!

A bit of both, I think.

I recall two female speakers speaking out against lesbianism at a conference in China. They were holding hands for the entire duration of their turn at the microphone. Also, it is a pity that we in occidental cultures can't caress, cuddle, massage and kiss our human companions and friends the way many of us do with our pets, without incurring severe opprobrium.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Excellent topic, Floppit.

I think the issue is that all contact of the kind you are describing has been sexualized. I have been thinking since reading your post about why that might be. You can't cuddle a kid any more without someone looking at you suspiciously. You can't swim naked any more as people used to do commonly. You can't share a bath with your kids without wondering if it might be viewed as a 'bad thing'.

I think the removal of public intimacy happened at the same time as the clampdown on sexuality - ie. the early Victorian era. It was part and parcel of the same mindset. Somehow, we have dropped the sexual inhibitions but kept the ones pertaining to public displays of affection - bizarre!

A bit of both, I think.

I recall two female speakers speaking out against lesbianism at a conference in China. They were holding hands for the entire duration of their turn at the microphone. Also, it is a pity that we in occidental cultures can't caress, cuddle, massage and kiss our human companions and friends the way many of us do with our pets, without incurring severe opprobrium.

I get a huge throbbing opprobrium every time I caress, cuddle, massage and kiss a woman - I quite like it, actually.

[Link]

My mates will regularily get a giant bear hug if we're saying hello/goodbye/randomly meeting in a crowded street.

We also often say we love each other, It's just never been a big deal and we are all comfortable enough with ourselves and each other to know that it's non-sexual.

I think it depends entirely on the person as well, there are people I know that aren't overly comfortable with expressing their affection even to their closest family and then their are others who will just walk up to you and give you a bone crushing hug.