You cunt! I mean, you dick! I mean...

[hadespussercats]

As a student, I laboured with some guys who were much more ready to use such terms that I was. Guys for whom "fuck" was sprinkled liberally in every sentence, with to my mind no discernible semantic significance. As to whether there was some deep-seated and offensive value-judgement on females or on love-making contained within such discourse, I'm not qualified to say, but I do think nothing of that existed for these guys on a conscious level. My guess is that such usage developed at a time when society was less liberal and these words were "unmentionable". You still see the same thing when young kids daringly use terms they think aren't allowed, or will shock: Flanders and Swan used to sing a song on this subject whose refrain was, "Pee, po, belly, bum, drawers."

Some posts earlier in this fred use "cunt" in the sense of "person". I have known people who would use the term thus. Such folk would describe somebody they didn't like as a "bad cunt", but it was the "bad", and not the "cunt", that conveyed the odium.

I once worked under a foreman whose use of "fuck" and "cunt" was more prolific than that of anyone else I've ever met. On one occasion, he was so exasperated at one of my workmates that he ran out of words, and called him, impotently, "Ya cuntin......CUNT!"

Yeah. I think it was Audley, elsewhere on the forum, who remarked on how some swear words just become defused from overuse. So new words that might just seem bizarre, but still have a glamour of being shocking, rise up to fill the void.

This is where I get into the same problem as Ani's friend in the diner. Because I grew up in Massachusetts, where everything was wicked gay, wicked queer, or wicked retarded. "Gay" in this circumstance really had little to nothing to do with homophobia (at least in practice-- the etymology is pretty undeniably gay-hating) it meant something was dorky or lame (another new bad term) or just annoying.

Louis CK has a bit where he talks about how he could actually be watching two men having sex (though he can't explain why he would be watching!) and no slur would come to mind. But if one man took the dick out of his mouth to say, "People from Phoenix are Phonecians!" he'd say "That is SO GAY! You are SO GAY!"

I don't say that one much. But retarded? I say that all the time. Because so many people really are retarded. But I'm starting to feel really conflicted about it.

Maybe I will replace the word 'retarded' with the word 'cunt.'

Wait.

[John_fi_Skye]

Call me limited, but having done 35 years with teenage kids I'll never call anyone "retarded". I'd much rather call them "fucking cunts".

Interesting fred, btw.

[Animavore]

"Retard" is such an American thing to say. "Spastic" was pretty big when I was a kid. This has been reduced to "spa". I doubt kids today know the origin of the word they so casually use. That's only in the space of 20 years.

[John_fi_Skye]

Yep. I'd never use "spa" or "spazz" or "spastic" either. I was brought up next door to a guy called Ian who had Down's Syndrome. Such people were called "Mongols" then. Being with Ian taught me more than anything else in my life. I honour Ian. He was a great guy.

[hadespussercats]

Call me limited, but having done 35 years with teenage kids I'll never call anyone "retarded". I'd much rather call them "fucking cunts".

Interesting fred, btw.

I don't think that's limited. When I think about the term in the context of actual people who might be hurt by it, it gives me pause.

I don't know. Sometimes I think it's no different from any other word that started out as a diagnostic term and devolved into a slur-- idiot, moron, pinhead. I don't use it to describe the developmentally challenged. Well. I don't ever used it to mock the developmentally challenged, but I will sometimes describe someone as having retarded development in one aspect or another-- by which I actually mean "delayed" (the word was still used diagnostically when I was young-- in fact, I remember being told to call people with Downs 'retarded' instead of 'mongoloid.' Which I guess means I'm older than I'd like to think.)

I'm still working out my stance on ableist terms. I have a serious mental illness, I've been institutionalized, but I still describe people as "fucking crazy" and "delusional" and so on and so forth. I know what I'm talking about, right? Still, were someone to read that information and decide my ideas are worthless because I'm crazy, or that I should be avoided or feared or otherwise invalidated, then, well, I've got a problem.

"Retarded" is a word like this.

I'm still working it out. And it's not precisely on topic, since 'retarded' and 'crazy' aren't exactly sex swears.

"Cunts" though...

Why are cunts different from dicks? There has been talk on some progressive/feminist sites online that "dick" is an acceptable slur, while "cunt" is not.

Why would that be?

[Audley Strange]

That's another word I've had issues with. I genuinely had not heard the word retarded used for someone with learning difficulties or mental issues since I was about 10. So I often used to use it in the strict sense of delayed, slowed as in "your thinking is retarded". Unfortunately everyone seemed to assume I was using an archaic insult. Which then became popular again as such in the U.S.

Mind you I used to call people "fucking monkeys" until one of my pals pointed out that it was often used as a racist term, where as I meant just generally unevolved people. At some point I just said "fuck this" and accepted it would be less hassle to apologise to anyone who I felt was genuinely offended than to worry about censoring myself.

[Animavore]

The only reason 'cunt' is more taboo than 'dick' is because society has decreed it thus. Any attempts to rationalise a preference for one swear word over another is going to sound like ad hoc reasoning and laughable.

[hadespussercats]

The only reason 'cunt' is more taboo than 'dick' is because society has decreed it thus. Any attempts to rationalise a preference for one swear word over another is going to sound like ad hoc reasoning and laughable.

Well, sure, but... all of this is within the so-called rationalist community, isn't it?

My sense is that dick is considered okay because dicks are male, and men have power, and you can make fun of people with power all you like with impunity (not saying I agree with this reasoning. Just getting down my sense of things.)

But cunt is not acceptable because not only is a woman's part and thus symbolic of the marginalized half of humanity, but because cunt is a vile word for that part-- and using it as an insult indicates that womens parts are especially vile and thus suited for a slur.

This last I guess would be like 'smegma', when it comes to uncut men...

[hadespussercats]

That's another word I've had issues with. I genuinely had not heard the word retarded used for someone with learning difficulties or mental issues since I was about 10. So I often used to use it in the strict sense of delayed, slowed as in "your thinking is retarded". Unfortunately everyone seemed to assume I was using an archaic insult. Which then became popular again as such in the U.S.

Mind you I used to call people "fucking monkeys" until one of my pals pointed out that it was often used as a racist term, where as I meant just generally unevolved people. At some point I just said "fuck this" and accepted it would be less hassle to apologise to anyone who I felt was genuinely offended than to worry about censoring myself.

This reminds me of the moment I finally realized why "cotton-pickin' " was a terrible thing to say.

I think I've been caught by the monkeys thing before, too-- because it simply never occurred to me to think one race is more monkey-like than any other.

It's be nice if people wouldn't jump to conclusions/assume the worst so quickly. But then, I do both of those things, frequently. It's hard to stop.

[Audley Strange]

Call me limited, but having done 35 years with teenage kids I'll never call anyone "retarded". I'd much rather call them "fucking cunts".

Interesting fred, btw.

I don't think that's limited. When I think about the term in the context of actual people who might be hurt by it, it gives me pause.

I don't know. Sometimes I think it's no different from any other word that started out as a diagnostic term and devolved into a slur-- idiot, moron, pinhead. I don't use it to describe the developmentally challenged. Well. I don't ever used it to mock the developmentally challenged, but I will sometimes describe someone as having retarded development in one aspect or another-- by which I actually mean "delayed" (the word was still used diagnostically when I was young-- in fact, I remember being told to call people with Downs 'retarded' instead of 'mongoloid.' Which I guess means I'm older than I'd like to think.)

I'm still working out my stance on ableist terms. I have a serious mental illness, I've been institutionalized, but I still describe people as "fucking crazy" and "delusional" and so on and so forth. I know what I'm talking about, right? Still, were someone to read that information and decide my ideas are worthless because I'm crazy, or that I should be avoided or feared or otherwise invalidated, then, well, I've got a problem.

"Retarded" is a word like this.

I'm still working it out. And it's not precisely on topic, since 'retarded' and 'crazy' aren't exactly sex swears.

"Cunts" though...

Why are cunts different from dicks? There has been talk on some progressive/feminist sites online that "dick" is an acceptable slur, while "cunt" is not.

Why would that be?

Well that's the thing. Using words you know will deliberately hurt someone to hurt someone is not particularly good manners. However I take exception to the fact that people get vicariously offended on behalf of imagined others and thus take some moral high-ground in which they expect you to self censor, just in case.

There is a difference between hearing something offensive and being subject to something offensive.

As for cunt. I'm not sure it's always been historically shocking in the states. Wasn't there a whole "cunt power" thing with some of the more fashion oriented radical feminists but then it seemed to become even more seriously evil in the nineties again. This is from an outsiders perspective so it may well be wrong.

[Animavore]

"Cunt" is only vile in people's heads. In Ireland it's an everyday word. There's no inherent vileness to it. Watching so-called skeptics tie themselves in knots over ever-changing words is amusing to me. Their 'rationalisation' doesn't cover their irrational fear, nay phobia, of certain words they've been warded off since a child with wagging fingers.

[hadespussercats]

"Cunts" though...

Why are cunts different from dicks? There has been talk on some progressive/feminist sites online that "dick" is an acceptable slur, while "cunt" is not.

Why would that be?

Well that's the thing. Using words you know will deliberately hurt someone to hurt someone is not particularly good manners. However I take exception to the fact that people get vicariously offended on behalf of imagined others and thus take some moral high-ground in which they expect you to self censor, just in case.

There is a difference between hearing something offensive and being subject to something offensive.

As for cunt. I'm not sure it's always been historically shocking in the states. Wasn't there a whole "cunt power" thing with some of the more fashion oriented radical feminists but then it seemed to become even more seriously evil in the nineties again. This is from an outsiders perspective so it may well be wrong.

Well. The word gained a bit of traction as hearkening to the Mother Goddess, Sheila NaGig and Yonic Power and so forth.

But radical feminists have pretty much always been themselves shocking to the general US populace, so...
"Cunt" as a word of positive power never really caught on outside university.

[rasetsu]

When I was younger, a friend commented that nothing was shocking anymore, to which I replied that it wasn't so much as nothing was shocking as it was that what is shocking has changed. I'm not so sure I'd make that same argument today, but I'd have to think about it. Most of my adult life the sternest expletive I would utter is, "Oh, dear!" That's changed of late, because I'm under a lot of stress and I was looking for a way to manage it, and I turned to swearing. I sincerely regret that decision. I swear now, but it doesn't make me feel any better. And that leads to a vicious cycle in which I swear more. And things like the Saw movies and Meatball Machine lead me to believe my earlier argument was correct, I just need examples.

Having studied four languages, and studied the slang and sexual voccabularies of a handful more, it's interesting what is preserved and what isn't. I think those who argue the slang terms are a result of a specific culture's tendencies would be refuted by the commonality across languages, but that's more impression than rigorous analysis. The only largely diverging term that sticks out is, in some languages (Arabic for one), referring to someone's mother's cunt is the equivalent of the English cunt. (And, in contrast to my earlier statement, if I recall correctly, there are quite a few Arabic insults relating to shoes.)

Oh, yes. And I remember being in the hospital for suicide once, and playing trivial pursuit with my family. My sister, whose not the brightest, made some silly answer, and her husband slapped his forehead and exclaimed, "Are you mental?!" Which caused a few eyes to widen, but it was probably not appropriate. But nobody took offense.

[hadespussercats]

"Cunt" is only vile in people's heads. In Ireland it's an everyday word. There's no inherent vileness to it. Watching so-called skeptics tie themselves in knots over ever-changing words is amusing to me. Their 'rationalisation' doesn't cover their irrational fear, nay phobia, of certain words they've been warded off since a child with wagging fingers.

I was just thinking about dick (well, aren't I always? )
--as a curse word or descriptor.

It's never positive. "Bitch" has some positive connotations as "righteous and assertive" or "delightfully snarky," and can, as I mentioned before, be applied to women and men, even though it's gendered female. "Dick" never is.

I can't think of a slang term for penis that isn't associated with ideas of someone being inconsiderate, domineering, selfish, or stupid.

Why is that, you think?

I suppose "twat" is the same. Yeah, I can't really think of a positive insult using slang for vulva or vagina. Tits? Help me out here.

The only one that seems to regularly get positive associations is "balls." Though even "bollocks" has some negative associations ("bullshit.")

What's so great about balls? Most people seem to think penises are more attractive than scrotums (a?), and testicles are so vulnerable. Why are they so preferred in our slang? Does it have to do with virility/fertility?

[rasetsu]

Speaking of offensive, I find many heterosexuals take great offense to my referring to them as "breeders."



Recently a moderator, female, referred to myself and another woman as "buttbuddies." When I pointed out that it was a homophobic slur, she attempted to defend it's use by pointing out that women can engage in anal sex. I was like, wtf?