The internet and social life

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Re: The internet and social life

Post by Robert_S » Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:23 am

Don Juan Demarco wrote:The telephone revolutionised communication. The internet's "revolution" is not the way it communicates, but the audience it communicates to. You can share ideas and information in volumes unprecedented only a click away. The value of the internet to social interaction is miniscule compared to the freedom of information it allows. It is the reason why things such as 'net neutrality' are so goddamn important, it is the last place on Earth that you can speak uncensored and even that is disappearing.

All the myspace and facebook and twitter clones, all the chat rooms and webcam rooms and skypes are insignificant compared to just a single website: http://wikileaks.org/
+1 on the issue of net neutrality.

I use facebook to keep up on local events of interest to me and that gets me out on the town more. I have actually not used forums, chatrooms or any any other net communications to meet people in real life so far. But they have made the world smaller and bigger at the same time.
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
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The Net is best considered analogous to communication with disincarnate intelligences. As any neophyte would tell you. Do not invoke that which you have no facility to banish.
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Re: The internet and social life

Post by charlou » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:00 am

Robert_S wrote:But they have made the world smaller and bigger at the same time.
So true.
no fences

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Re: The internet and social life

Post by Ronja » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:00 am

One more example of recent developments:

My youngest sister was studying in San Francisco, when the 1989 earthquake hit. It took her half a day of queuing to get one two-minute phone call to Finland, to tell us that she was alive. Transatlantic phone calls cost about one USD per minute back then. After that phone call we could not contact her or most of the people we knew in the SF Bay Area in any manner for 2-3 days, and also after the initial phone blackout there were many breaks in phone connections. The only sources of information were TV, radio, newspapers, and expensive landline phone calls. The school's email connections were one of the last things they reestablished - low priority back then.

Fast forward 20 years.

The same sister's husband was deployed in Afghanistan 2009-2010 (we are very happy he is safely back home in Florida now). Anyone with Internet connectivity could follow his 3-5 times per week updates during his deployment at his blog: http://afghanistanmylasttour.com/ - my sis and him kept contact through Skype, IM, Facebook, email... I hope they decide to keep the blog online as a small piece of communications history.

Today my husband and I keep contact with family members, friends, relatives and colleagues in at least 8 time zones almost daily. And find that perfectly normal. Yes, the world of social communication has changed a LOT in living memory.


BTW: I keep forgetting that Ratz is an atheists+agnostics+brights+freethinkers+friends community. And then, when someone mentions that fact, I do a bit of a double-take and then go "Oh yes, that's why I originally ended here after the RDF meltdown". But most of the time I just forget. Like most of the time I don't realize I'm breathing.

I guess that's about the highest praise I can think of for any group of people. I landed here for a specific reason - now the people here are reason enough to keep returning. :huggeroo:
"The internet is made of people. People matter. This includes you. Stop trying to sell everything about yourself to everyone. Don’t just hammer away and repeat and talk at people—talk TO people. It’s organic. Make stuff for the internet that matters to you, even if it seems stupid. Do it because it’s good and feels important. Put up more cat pictures. Make more songs. Show your doodles. Give things away and take things that are free." - Maureen J

"...anyone who says it’s “just the Internet” can :pawiz: . And then when they come back, they can :pawiz: again." - Tigger

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Re: The internet and social life

Post by Tigger » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:41 am

There have been a couple of similar threads to do with this topic and I’ve posted in them, so I’ll keep this shortish. If anyone’s interested, let me know. :roll:

I have found friendship, love, and a whole new outlook on life since the formation of Ratz – or just before, maybe. I owe it and the founders an awful lot and I will embarrass the hell out of them saying so whenever I can. You know who you are.

My life has been turned upside down in a good way and changed to a degree that I would never have thought possible. My best friends are here. You know who you are.

I have never felt so fucking fit, alive, happy, sad in my entire time on this planet and anyone, anyone who says it’s “just the Internet” can :pawiz: . And then when they come back, they can :pawiz: again.
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Re: The internet and social life

Post by Thinking Aloud » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:53 am

Tigger wrote:My life has been turned upside down in a good way and changed to a degree that I would never have thought possible.
I second that.

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Re: The internet and social life

Post by JimC » Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:35 am

Family aside, Ratz is my social life... :oops:

Well, why the fuck not! :cheers:
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Re: The internet and social life

Post by devogue » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:06 am

The only people I have met in real life from here are Charlou and Seraph. It was a wonderful, strange day. Nothing quite prepares you for someone calling you by your username or discussing other usernames, because we interact here in silence - the noise is emoticons, block capitals and punctuation, and we join in from a lonely vantage point, a PC, monitor, keyboard and mouse (apart from a few exceptions).

I now have a soft spot for Charlou and Seraph which I don't have for the rest of you. I like Seraph even more because we have since picked up on our grouchy, grumpy relationship with each other online, and Charlou is even better in reality than she is here. The queen of laid back (in every sense? :hehe: ). They have both given me some gorgeous memories.

They are the only people I would really, truly miss if the internet somehow disappeared - I would be sure to phone or write. However, I have a lot of sympathy at times for those who say it's not real here, that it's a game (I thought about this while writing a PM yesterday) - and this is why:

For me, and I suspect for many others who haven't met up with other Ratz, if the plug was pulled out of the wall and the internet disappeared I would go "Oh well" and I would go on my merry way and enjoy the life that I have outside of my time here. I wouldn't grieve, I wouldn't curl up on the floor in a sobbing heap (except for the psychological addiction) and my world would not collapse in the same way as if someone in my real life disappeared forever.

That's not to say that I can't enjoy the game, but my perception of it is that it is ephemeral - there is a chance that one day I will walk away from all this, as others have done before, but there is no chance of me walking away forever from my real life family and friends.

There are one or two people here who I would quite like to meet in person. Perhaps one day I will. But I'll never go to one of the big meets, one of the big events. Fair play to those of you that do, who find a new level of friendship, even love - but that's not for me. I prefer to keep this game (as I see it) as an enjoyable "compartment" in my life. I don't want it to spill over in to what I see as the most important areas of my life, like my family, social life etc.

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Re: The internet and social life

Post by Rum » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:13 am

You have every right to de-compartmentalise your life Dev. There are no rules about this stuff!

What I will say is that meeting a group of Ratz turns this place into a different experience and one, that for me at any rate, is a lot richer.

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Re: The internet and social life

Post by JimC » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:13 am

^^^^^^^

Fair enough, Dev...

I certainly can't compare Ratz to my immediate family, of course...

However, for a variety of reasons, outside my nuclear family, I have few if any RL friends. I certainly have fellow teachers whose company I enjoy, and have social interactions with my wife's family and friends. But, I ended up in a rather lonely personal space, outside of these areas.

Ratz is importannt to me. Very important...

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Re: The internet and social life

Post by Tigger » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:17 am

devogue wrote:The only people I have met in real life from here are Charlou and Seraph. It was a wonderful, strange day. Nothing quite prepares you for someone calling you by your username or discussing other usernames, because we interact here in silence - the noise is emoticons, block capitals and punctuation, and we join in from a lonely vantage point, a PC, monitor, keyboard and mouse (apart from a few exceptions).

I now have a soft spot for Charlou and Seraph which I don't have for the rest of you. I like Seraph even more because we have since picked up on our grouchy, grumpy relationship with each other online, and Charlou is even better in reality than she is here. The queen of laid back (in every sense? :hehe: ). They have both given me some gorgeous memories.

They are the only people I would really, truly miss if the internet somehow disappeared - I would be sure to phone or write. However, I have a lot of sympathy at times for those who say it's not real here, that it's a game (I thought about this while writing a PM yesterday) - and this is why:

For me, and I suspect for many others who haven't met up with other Ratz, if the plug was pulled out of the wall and the internet disappeared I would go "Oh well" and I would go on my merry way and enjoy the life that I have outside of my time here. I wouldn't grieve, I wouldn't curl up on the floor in a sobbing heap (except for the psychological addiction) and my world would not collapse in the same way as if someone in my real life disappeared forever.

That's not to say that I can't enjoy the game, but my perception of it is that it is ephemeral - there is a chance that one day I will walk away from all this, as others have done before, but there is no chance of me walking away forever from my real life family and friends.

There are one or two people here who I would quite like to meet in person. Perhaps one day I will. But I'll never go to one of the big meets, one of the big events. Fair play to those of you that do, who find a new level of friendship, even love - but that's not for me. I prefer to keep this game (as I see it) as an enjoyable "compartment" in my life. I don't want it to spill over in to what I see as the most important areas of my life, like my family, social life etc.
I think that's pretty much your loss, Dev. You've admitted that your thoughts about two people have changed. What about the rest of us? It only takes a moment to realise that the same would happen with (many) other people too, yet you seem prepared to dismiss them as perhaps "unreal", as merely "part of the Internet", when you have already experienced "the other side". It's not a game to some of us, and when some bastard comes along to deliberately hurt and then analyse the result, then it makes me bristle. Er, not you! Necessarily. ;)
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Re: The internet and social life

Post by Bella Fortuna » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:12 pm

Others have already said it so well.... but it's changed... well, everything for me - socially, romantically, how I spend my time, what I want to do in the future, the things I think about and have learned. Who knew, a few years ago when I decided to join that first forum, the amazing road it would start me down... :shiver:
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Re: The internet and social life

Post by devogue » Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:01 pm

Tigger wrote:I think that's pretty much your loss, Dev. You've admitted that your thoughts about two people have changed. What about the rest of us? It only takes a moment to realise that the same would happen with (many) other people too, yet you seem prepared to dismiss them as perhaps "unreal", as merely "part of the Internet", when you have already experienced "the other side". It's not a game to some of us, and when some bastard comes along to deliberately hurt and then analyse the result, then it makes me bristle. Er, not you! Necessarily. ;)


I've thought about things a lot before and since I met Charlou and Seraph in Australia. The first thing to say is that it would be much, much easier for me to meet people in the UK and Ireland, but I don't - as I said to Charlou and Seraph, the great geographical distance between us made me feel more comfortable about meeting them - it was probably a once in a lifetime thing, a memory to be cherished and a slice of life that we can share and recount here. They are wonderful people, it was a great experience and I don't regret meeting them for a second - but if they lived an hour from me in Europe I wouldn't have met up with them.

I want to keep my online life completely separate from my real life, and there are a number of reasons why. I take just fifteen days holiday a year (no bank holidays, work over the holiday periods) - this year ten of them were used on the trip of a lifetime to Australia - I really couldn't miss it - so now I have just five days to spend with my wife and kids. That's this year. Next year I'll have a full fifteen days again - I haven't seen my friends in London for seven years, I haven't seen friends in County Down for two years, I haven't seen my sister in Liverpool for two years, I hardly see my extended family and I will, of course, want to spend plenty of time with my wife and children. Even if I had another couple of weeks off there still wouldn't be time to meet up with you lovely people - I don't mean to be horrible, but people here are way, way down my list of priorities when it comes to how I spend my RL time. Charlou and Seraph were at the top because everything came together - geography, time, company...

The second reason I am wary about meeting up with people is that this forum allows me something that is pretty unique - I can give expression to elements of my personality that I can't share in Real Life. As such, I interact with people in a certain way here - I am not "SB" (my initials) - I am "devogue" here, and I use my persona like an avatar in Second Life or something. Everything becomes exaggerated, more colourful, more "game-like". I don't want the mundane reality of Real Life to seep in to my online relationships with people - I don't want a crowd of people to see me sipping a pint, picking up on my characteristics and facial expressions and then transferring them to my posts. No - I don't want you to know the "real" me and I don't want to know the "real" you. I don't want to sit in a bar in Blackpool and see the "Tiggerness" stripped away from Tigger, the "Lozzerness" stripped away from Lozzer - I want to experience you all swimming free in a pure pro-silver sea of Tron-like electonic beauty.

The third reason relates to what you said about "hurt" and the nature of community. This is an internet forum first and foremost - anything extra that has developed beyond that has developed because of the selfish desires, wants and needs of those who populate it. If you decide to meet up with twenty people who post on the internet forum, if you fall in love with them or whatever, you have opened Pandora's box and you have moved your involvement beyond the basic reason for being here - you cannot and should not then expect members of the community who use the forum as it really is, as an internet forum full of avatars, sigs, and the rough and tumble of internetica, to feel the same hurt and emotions that you feel because you have met other people in real life. The onus is on you to fit back in with the unique electronic vibe of the internet forum, not on other members to accomodate your new found extra-forum relationships.

When I met with Charlou and Seraph for what amounted to just a few hours, it was like the greatest PM exchange ever. God, did we have fun talking about you lot! As we spoke, we created little bonds, little impressions; when seeing someone's facial expressions things did make more sense - (perhaps I was wrong about that person?) - we had the ultimate private forum. So I then return to the forum and I see someone having a go at Charlou - how do I feel? Well, I'll tell you - I feel much, much more upset than I did before I met her, and I have had to bite my lip on a number of occasions because I recognise that feeling and I'm tempted to intervene. All of a sudden, she isn't an avatar - she's flesh and blood, but the person having a go at her is an avatar, so now my whole interaction is skewed and warped and I'm not enjoying a "pure" internet forum experience - which is what I signed up for in the first place!

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Re: The internet and social life

Post by Bella Fortuna » Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:09 pm

From my own personal desires and motivations I disagree with much of what you wrote, Dev, but you have expressed your vantage point clearly.
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Re: The internet and social life

Post by Rum » Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:11 pm

If you added the hours you spend here to your annual leave you could have a month off a year. :hehe:

As I said earlier in this thread - there are no rules to this. As I also said, meeting a bunch of people from herein RL makes the experience richer. They don't come across totally as the same persona exactly, though close enough, but none of them really go to the same lengths as you do to 'play' a character, i.e. 'Dev' - and maybe that's the difference. This forum and their presence in it is simply nearer RL to those who are happy to take the step into real life meetings.

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Re: The internet and social life

Post by devogue » Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:12 pm

Bella Fortuna wrote:From my own personal desires and motivations I disagree with much of what you wrote, Dev, but you have expressed your vantage point clearly.
Fundamentally, that's what it's all about, Bella.

I should stress that when I used the word "selfish", we are all selfish - desires are by their very nature selfish.

Also, not desiring real life interaction with members does not mean one cannot have fun and a good time with them online.

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