Western clothing culture vs the others

[punter18]

So, I got into a debate with someone on facebook over this picture:

about the western females wearing bikinis and body hugging clothes as a sign of liberalized society. And this is what the guy had to say in reply:

Why not? Her [Woman on the right] argument could be that it amounted to commodification of the woman, as such an outfit is meant to accentuate the contours of her body, which, significantly, (straight) MEN -- and not (straight) women -- would love to ogle at! Thus, the 'liberated' womenfolk are leading their lives on terms set by men, too.

(Emphasis mine.)

To which I replied:

She is entitled to her opinion. However, her conclusions could have been arrived at via a slippery slope. Most obviously, women wearing skin hugging clothes want to show off their curvaceous figures (and may be that's why most overweight females don't wear such clothes). The motivation behind it could be to feel good about one's own body, to feel sexy, and yes, to attract the attention of the onlookers. However, this doesn't necessarily amount to "commodification". Wearing a veil is also explicitly enforced in Corinthians and Deuteronomy (the girl in the video mentioned it). Increasing liberalization saw such divinely ordained articles of clothing as a form of coercion rather than sign of morality and 'modesty'. So rose the movement of feminism which advocated 'sexual revolution' and 'free love', which was in direct opposition to such Christian morality.

So, what the girl in the cartoon thinks as "commodification" is actually a result of history of varied struggles. She can think of nothing better because she has been brainwashed by her society that being in a veil somehow puts her into a morally higher ground. What the westerner on the left clearly knows that her counterpart from the other society has been coerced and most probably given veil-or-else threat.

I am not sure how right is my reply, but I think the guy is sending wrong signals or is having a very narrow thinking.

Comments?

[punter18]

The video I was referring to was this one

[Geoff]

I think it comes down to choice. In the "Western" example, she or any other woman can wear what they want, whether that's sexy clothes, business suits, scruffy tracksuits, whatever. With the burqa and hijab, in most cases they're forced by their menfolk to wear them.

[punter18]

I think it comes down to choice. In the "Western" example, she or any other woman can wear what they want, whether that's sexy clothes, business suits, scruffy tracksuits, whatever.

I agree. But how true is the assertion that such choice is made by a woman to 'lead a life on terms set by men,' as I quoted in my OP?

I actually called bollocks on that and gave a bit of historical perspective to it. Was I right?

[Geoff]

I think it comes down to choice. In the "Western" example, she or any other woman can wear what they want, whether that's sexy clothes, business suits, scruffy tracksuits, whatever.

I agree. But how true is the assertion that such choice is made by a woman to 'lead a life on terms set by men,' as I quoted in my OP?

I actually called bollocks on that and gave a bit of historical perspective to it. Was I right?

Yep, you were completely right. If anything, women choose to wear sexy clothes, at least in part to "exploit" men!

[Drewish]

Women have freedom is Western society. Now given that, what are the paths to financial security for a woman?
1) inherit money.
2) Get a decent paying job.
3) Find a partner who will support you.

You don't have a choice with number 1, and number two is much harder than number 3, so it's no surprise that many women opt for that option. Now how does a woman go about finding such a partner? Turns out that being sexy helps.

Then again, perhaps a woman is the independent sort and has a decent paying job. Perhaps she doesn't want a man tying her down (well figuratively at least ) and is only looking for a good time. What kind of clothing would best aid her in that?

Lastly, now imagine that she's in Iran and will be beaten or likely raped if she is dressed immodestly. Seems like many women would then opt to wear a veil or burqa in that situation.

So really there's only a difference if you hold the belief that coercion and the threat of violence are immoral. Otherwise there is no difference. Of course I do believe that and think Islam is a vile, disgusting, woman-hating pile of trash, but I'm sure that was already well known.

[Horwood Beer-Master]

I think it comes down to choice. In the "Western" example, she or any other woman can wear what they want, whether that's sexy clothes, business suits, scruffy tracksuits, whatever. With the burqa and hijab, in most cases they're forced by their menfolk to wear them.

And most western women don't in actual fact choose to walk down the local highstreet in just a bikini anyways.