American Football

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JimC
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Re: American Football

Post by JimC » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:47 am

...and the Kraken!
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Re: American Football

Post by laklak » Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:08 am

Rabid wolves on riding mowers.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: American Football

Post by Forty Two » Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:12 pm

JimC wrote:Aussie rules football is full of violent clashes and tackling, with no helmets or body armour. Still plenty of kids playing it (actually, our school has produced several dozen AFL players in the time I've been there...)
It's a different sport. American football hits are much harder than, say, rugby. https://thetab.com/uk/plymouth/2014/01/ ... rugby-4259 - Rugby is not the same as Aussie football, but I haven't found a source comparing American and Aussie football.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying one is better than the other. They're different sports, and both are fun to watch. I watched Ozzie football as a teenager, and my friends and I even tried playing it from time to time. Lots of fun. I was a fan of the Collingswood Magpies, for some unknown reason. LOL.

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Re: American Football

Post by JimC » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:02 pm

Forty Two wrote:

...I was a fan of the Collingwood Magpies, for some unknown reason...
They are the team every other fan hates. I'm enjoying my schadenfreude as they have been struggling this year, will not make the finals, and their coach, a favoured son from their past is dangling by a thread. My team, the Geelong Cats, are third on the ladder, although I doubt they're quite good enough this year to make the Grand Final...
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Re: American Football

Post by laklak » Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:06 am

My team, the Motherfucking Cocksuckers, are dead last.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: American Football

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:45 am

Forty Two wrote:
JimC wrote:Aussie rules football is full of violent clashes and tackling, with no helmets or body armour. Still plenty of kids playing it (actually, our school has produced several dozen AFL players in the time I've been there...)
It's a different sport. American football hits are much harder than, say, rugby. https://thetab.com/uk/plymouth/2014/01/ ... rugby-4259 - Rugby is not the same as Aussie football, but I haven't found a source comparing American and Aussie football.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying one is better than the other. They're different sports, and both are fun to watch. I watched Ozzie football as a teenager, and my friends and I even tried playing it from time to time. Lots of fun. I was a fan of the Collingswood Magpies, for some unknown reason. LOL.
Don't admit to being a Collingwood supporter.. ;)

Aussie rules hits are just as hard and probably harder than American Football in terms of velocity, but the weights involved are probably smaller on average.

And without watching the video (not enough download data to waste on random videos) I'd say I'd have to be suprised that Merkan hits are bigger than the two codes of rugby hits. If I had some spare data I"m sure there's probably a compilation of greatest hits on youtube for each rugby code. Or failing that, just watch a game involving Samoa and anyone else. It's horrifying.

The scariest thing about Aussie rules is that there's no on or off side, so hits can come from any direction. Some of the worst ones are a person running one way backwards watching the ball in the air and then get flattened by someone smashing into them at full speed.
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Re: American Football

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:06 am

Ok, I just watched some greatest hits videos (on low quality settings) and Merkin Football hits are bigger than Rugby. AFL hits are very similar to Merkin Footy ones in that it usually involves someone looking one way and getting pole-axed from another direction. This video was pretty funny :)

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Re: American Football

Post by Brian Peacock » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:52 am

pErvin wrote:
Forty Two wrote:
JimC wrote:Aussie rules football is full of violent clashes and tackling, with no helmets or body armour. Still plenty of kids playing it (actually, our school has produced several dozen AFL players in the time I've been there...)
It's a different sport. American football hits are much harder than, say, rugby. https://thetab.com/uk/plymouth/2014/01/ ... rugby-4259 - Rugby is not the same as Aussie football, but I haven't found a source comparing American and Aussie football.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying one is better than the other. They're different sports, and both are fun to watch. I watched Ozzie football as a teenager, and my friends and I even tried playing it from time to time. Lots of fun. I was a fan of the Collingswood Magpies, for some unknown reason. LOL.
Don't admit to being a Collingwood supporter.. ;)

Aussie rules hits are just as hard and probably harder than American Football in terms of velocity, but the weights involved are probably smaller on average.

And without watching the video (not enough download data to waste on random videos) I'd say I'd have to be suprised that Merkan hits are bigger than the two codes of rugby hits. If I had some spare data I"m sure there's probably a compilation of greatest hits on youtube for each rugby code. Or failing that, just watch a game involving Samoa and anyone else. It's horrifying.

The scariest thing about Aussie rules is that there's no on or off side, so hits can come from any direction. Some of the worst ones are a person running one way backwards watching the ball in the air and then get flattened by someone smashing into them at full speed.
Another major difference in impacts between the sports is the amount, location, and composition of the armour used.
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Re: American Football

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:09 am

Yeah, there's no doubt that hits to the body and head are harder and blunter in the rugby codes and afl, compared to Merkan football. But one thing to remember is that helmets don't protect against concussion, and it's turning out that brain injury after concussion is one of the biggest and most debilitating injuries football players suffer over the long term.
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Re: American Football

Post by Brian Peacock » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:21 am

Yarp.
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Re: American Football

Post by Hermit » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:31 am

Forty Two wrote:American football hits are much harder than, say, rugby.
Perhaps. Force of impact is basically a function of mass and velocity. In the end a 100 kilo player hitting another player at a net speed of, say 30 kilometres per hour will result in the exact same impact force, no matter which football code that impact features in. To compare Rugby Union, Rugby League (or that Melbourne abomination) with American football hits one needs to take a whole bunch of hits and average them out. The opinion piece does not even pretend to be scientific. The video compares one instance of a Rugby Union amateur hitting a live target with one instance of a professional top league hitting a prop and has the nerve to call that a scientific test.

Not being enthused by any of the codes I mentioned, I don't care to take sides. All I want to point out is that the "evidence" you present in support of your assertion that American football hits are much harder than, say, rugby, is not evidence.

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Re: American Football

Post by Hermit » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:51 am

pErvin wrote:Yeah, there's no doubt that hits to the body and head are harder and blunter in the rugby codes and afl, compared to Merkan football.
With the lack of armour, which spreads the impact out over more of the body, the hits are certainly more concentrated, but don't forget that both Rugby codes have regulated the more vicious hits out of existence. Spear tackles and head-high tackles have been outlawed for many years now, and for all I know (as I mentioned, I don't follow any of those games) I think the shoulder charge is gone in Rugby Union and there are calls to get it outlawed in League now as well.

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Re: American Football

Post by Brian Peacock » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:05 am

Grid Iron and Rugby League employ more direct, head-to-head contact than Rugby Union and Aussie Rules, which have more intrinsic lateral components in their game play. Structurally, Aussie Rules and Rugby are open, with combatants having to get up straight after tackles and continue in the running game, which has got to impact on how the players impact each other. A personal treatise on which of the sports is the 'hardest' is just dick waving - each of the sports is a highly specialised Game Of Giants which would see non-professionals of even above-average fitness levels being brutally cleaved in twain at the first tackle.

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Re: American Football

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:20 am

Hermit wrote:
pErvin wrote:Yeah, there's no doubt that hits to the body and head are harder and blunter in the rugby codes and afl, compared to Merkan football.
With the lack of armour, which spreads the impact out over more of the body, the hits are certainly more concentrated, but don't forget that both Rugby codes have regulated the more vicious hits out of existence. Spear tackles and head-high tackles have been outlawed for many years now, and for all I know (as I mentioned, I don't follow any of those games) I think the shoulder charge is gone in Rugby Union and there are calls to get it outlawed in League now as well.
It's definitely gone from league and afl. I'm fairly certain it's gone from union too. When I first heard about the shoulder charge being outlawed I thought it was a fucked decision. But the football codes are all so much faster than they were years ago, so the hits are generally bigger, and they can be continued throughout the game. And the shoulder charge can really mess someone up. It's a shame, from a spectator perspective, as they were some of the biggest hits. But from a player safety perspective, it's right that it's been banned.
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Re: American Football

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:23 am

Brian Peacock wrote:Grid Iron and Rugby League employ more direct, head-to-head contact than Rugby Union and Aussie Rules, which have more intrinsic lateral components in their game play. Structurally, Aussie Rules and Rugby are open, with combatants having to get up straight after tackles and continue in the running game, which has got to impact on how the players impact each other. A personal treatise on which of the sports is the 'hardest' is just dick waving - each of the sports is a highly specialised Game Of Giants which would see non-professionals of even above-average fitness levels being brutally cleaved in twain at the first tackle.

Actually Gird Iron has a lot of lateral play, way more so than either of the rugby codes. Not as much as AFL, though.

I didn't watch the video as I've hammered my internet connection enough today, but the frame grab of it reminded me of the dominance of Pacific Islanders in the biggest hits department. They really are a tough "race". As I mentioned earlier, if you want to see carnage, watch Manu Samoa play anyone (other than perhaps the All Blacks) in rubgy union.

edit: that reminded me of one of the biggest hit videos I watched had the Samoan winger (traditionally one of the fastest players on the field) destroying some poor little person. I've forgotten this guy's name (Tu'igamalu, or something like that) but he used to play on the team with his brother. His brother was the prop forward (that's usually the heaviest person on the field) and he was the winger. His brother weighed about 120kgs, and he weighed closer to 125kg... :o
edit: found him - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alesana_Tuilagi. His bro must have bulked up eventually, as wiki has him listed at 128kg. There's also three other brothers who play or have played for Samoa.
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