Time is Nonexistent

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Time is Nonexistent

Post by Tails Turrosaki » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:58 am

I'm going to try and philosophize. This means I'll fail horribly at this. :oops:

█♥█♦█♣█♠█

Time can be perceived in a few ways. Some of those ways include it being a state of mind; nothing from the past or future exists once it's over with. Another way to look at it is that the past, present, and future are always existing.
While both thoughts are respected by me, I am going to be biased here, since my stance is that time is a state of mind.

Humans feel the need to measure. Whether you like it or not, we measure things. Whether it's predicting the time, calculating a distance from point A to point B, or simply just measuring the length of something, we measure.

"It's about five miles from our house to the restaurant."
"I'm going to be about ten minutes late for work."
"The Empire State Building is about a fourth of a mile's length! Can you believe it?"

How does this relate to the topic that time is a state of mind? Measurement. We measure it. It's a complex idea to think out.
Humans must measure everything. Measuring is unnatural. You don't see hedgehogs grabbing rulers and measuring the depth of their hole to predict whether or not it will cave in (exaggeration). They rely on instinct for this matter; we do not.
Time was used to organize events in history. And now those events are currently not existing. In our memories, yes, they are, but our memories cannot be viewed by other beings. A daydream isn't real, is it? It is not.
To think of this topic further, time cannot exist more than once. The current moment for this time's existence is 0.00000000...(infinite amount of 0s)...1. Once that time passes, it no longer exists.

Time (on a clock) is basically used to determine the sun and moon's position. At 6:30 AM, the sun begins to rise. At 12:00 midnight, the moon is currently showing. This tells us the moment of day it is at the moment, and you cannot go back in time to see it again. Once it happens, it happens. You cannot bring the sun back up at 11:30 PM; it's impossible.

The thought of time machines helps this matter as well. To go back in time, everything that just recently happened must rewind itself. That does not just mean people walking backwards and voices running back to the speaker. This means cells having to de-mitosis, atoms that have formed into another material must go back into the original form, our vision must rewind itself... These things are impossible. This also means we'd have to interfere with nature. The Earth must revolve the other way, orbit the other way. The Moon must do this as well. And the other planets and stars have to follow through. Everything in the entire universe must rewind itself in order to go back in time. This is impossible.
Even if we were to go back in time, we cannot really go back in time. We'd just be reversing the past events back to the original positions that they were at before. Not to mention that if we rewind time that the future would change, even if we didn't do anything. Rewinding the thoughts of people do not change their thoughts back to the original form. They might make a different choice; they can only forget the future events that are about to happen. If somebody chose a cappuccino at Starbucks, and then time was put in reverse, they might instead choose a frappuccino. Their mind would still be working, considering that time is nonexistent. And perhaps their mind will change their... well, mind. Nothing can happen exactly the same way after it happens, even if the person who had no changes done to them were to redo the whole action.

And... Umm... Uh... That's it. ._. My mind is fumbled now on the whole subject.
I must go lie down to treat my headache...

Ssssooooooo...

:what?:

I expect a lot of "YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THISSS!!! :pissed: " comments now. :? At least try not to strangle me...
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Re: Time is Nonexistent

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:42 am

Interesting. I am not going to claim that you have come up with anything original but you clearly think philosophically and logically (at least occasionally, which is a good thing.

If you are interested in such matters, go read The End of Time by Julian Barbour. You seem to share a few ideas with his (far more complex) theory. Let me know if you understand it! I got lost a few times. :dono:

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Re: Time is Nonexistent

Post by Tails Turrosaki » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:44 am

This is the first time I haven't received a "FAIL" for the first post. :what:

Does this mean the world is ending?
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Re: Time is Nonexistent

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:56 am

Tails Turrosaki wrote:This is the first time I haven't received a "FAIL" for the first post. :what:

Does this mean the world is ending?
The world is ending. Eventually. :tea:
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Re: Time is Nonexistent

Post by lofuji » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:39 am

Time exists, whether we measure it or not. The more interesting question is: why does it only go in one direction?

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Re: Time is Nonexistent

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:49 am

lofuji wrote:Time exists, whether we measure it or not. The more interesting question is: why does it only go in one direction?

lofuji
... or why do we only go in one direction through it?

Barbour's idea is (sort of) that every possible arrangement of 'stuff' in the universe exists simultaneously as a separate Now and that what we perceive of as time is merely one possible downhill progression through them, leading ultimately to a state of ultimate entropy. The trouble being that we can't jump between Nows, only be carried along a downward course with millions of alternate possible tracks between every instant and the next.

I must read that book again.
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Re: Time is Nonexistent

Post by charlou » Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:16 am

lofuji wrote:Time exists, whether we measure it or not.

Yes, it's not just a concept that we use to measure it's own passage for our convenience. We have evidence of this phenomenon we call Time in the effects of the passage of it on matter, as exemplified by Tails in his description of what would have to happen if Time were to rewind.
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Re: Time is Nonexistent

Post by Rum » Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:31 am

Charlou wrote:
lofuji wrote:Time exists, whether we measure it or not.

Yes, it's not just a concept that we use to measure it's own passage for our convenience. We have evidence of this phenomenon we call Time in the effects of the passage of it on matter, as exemplified by Tails in his description of what would have to happen if Time were to rewind.


Well we have evidence from our own observations, but can we say we objectively see the rate at which it flows? Not sure we can. We all know how much longer a day 'felt' when we were five years old and how short a year is when we get older. So perception and observation does have a part to play in this somewhere. There may be no objective metronomic flow which is the 'standard' flow of time.

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Re: Time is Nonexistent

Post by Tails Turrosaki » Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:55 pm

When I say "time" I mean "a moment that is recorded for eternity". But my stance is also that we are moving, but just because that we are moving does not mean that time is currently taking place.
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Re: Time is Nonexistent

Post by Rum » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:19 pm

Tails Turrosaki wrote:When I say "time" I mean "a moment that is recorded for eternity". But my stance is also that we are moving, but just because that we are moving does not mean that time is currently taking place.
I see no evidence that any moment is recorded anywhere for eternity. Time would appear to be the rolling out of consequences from the initial big bang and indeed was probably created by the big bang. No time 'before' it. Is time simply the consequences of cause and effect or do cause and effect take place because time is there as their 'medium'? I dunno.

Assuming for a moment that time therefore is simply events rolling out, cause followed by effect, the question arises as to whether it flows at a given observable objective rate. I suspect we are coming back as so often with this sort of stuff to the nature of consciousness in apprehending the phenomenon.

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Re: Time is Nonexistent

Post by floppit » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:29 pm

I remember when I was a kid figuring that time was motion because if you stopped all motion then time would stop - yeah, I know, but I was pretty young!

I liked that way of looking at it for a long time till I learned time and space were the same thing and both (so I hear) shaped like a thin rubber disc with an imaginary weight pulling it down in the middle, also the relativity of time messed with my head!

I have since mused whether space-time is in fact a fractal but I cannot remember why the hell I thought of that, I know there was a reason and if it comes back to me I'll post it, it had something to do with a lace table cloth so I wouldn't wait up!
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Re: Time is Nonexistent

Post by JacksSmirkingRevenge » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:08 pm

lofuji wrote:........The more interesting question is: why does it only go in one direction?

lofuji
Do we really know it only goes in one direction? I mean, since everything is subject to it (including our perception of it) then how would we know whether it was going backwards or forwards? :dono:

Does anyone know of any experiments etc. which prove or hint that it always goes forward?
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Re: Time is Nonexistent

Post by Animavore » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:09 pm

Yo' momma.
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Re: Time is Nonexistent

Post by JacksSmirkingRevenge » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:19 pm

Animavore wrote:Yo' momma.
Indeed.
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Re: Time is Nonexistent

Post by Trolldor » Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:53 pm

Bri wrote:
lofuji wrote:........The more interesting question is: why does it only go in one direction?

lofuji
Do we really know it only goes in one direction? I mean, since everything is subject to it (including our perception of it) then how would we know whether it was going backwards or forwards? :dono:

Does anyone know of any experiments etc. which prove or hint that it always goes forward?
As far as I can remember, it's we who travel through time forward. Not time which moves forward.

Or something like that.
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